Racism Or Preference?
Racism Or Preference?

The first two entries were to lay down a foundation for these stories. Right now, I’d like to tell you a bit about myself. Even though I am in my thirties, I still look a decade younger. Whenever I meet someone new, the first question is, “What are you taking in college?” or “Do you go to school?” I have this youthful boyish face. Just last week, someone thought I was 23. It has gotten to the point that whenever someone asks me about my age, I usually say, “Guess.”

I have a nice short haircut, and dimples on both cheeks. With an okay body – nobody’s perfect. One person described me as having a down-home, apple-pie stoic sweetness about myself. But when I’m at the baths, I get ignored by the other guys 99.9% of the time – not getting the time of day. After describing myself, you’d think I’d have many guys chasing after me. So why would I have this problem? Because I’m Asian. Any non-white ethnicity is completely undesirable by gay men of any color, including Asians.

There is still a racism problem in this country, which is most apparent in the gay community. Today’s racism isn’t blatant; instead, it is subtle. It is a back of people’s minds type of discrimination. People of all nationalities get discriminated against, every minute of every day. We all do it, and no one is immune. The most ironic thing about the gay community is that we have fought for equality in mainstream society. Yet, in many different settings, I’ve observed many gay men discriminate against each other.

The baths are like a microcosm of a small town that consists of gay men only. It’s where you can see every gay group imaginable – all under the same roof. No other gay environment can offer a wide variety of gay men interacting and playing sexual politics with one another. You will always see different types of men hooking up with each other on any given night, such as Chubs & Twinks, Bears & Smoothies, Gym Bunnies & Trans, etc. Despite these apparent differences, they all have one thing in common. All of these couples would be white. You will see more different men together at the baths – than a couple that is interracial.

Gay White Men don’t call this racism. Instead, they call it a preference. They say physical and sexual attraction is not racial or racist. Being unable to work with, be friends with, or have anything to do with a visible minority is racist. But since gay men aren’t attracted to women – does that make all gay men sexist? Of course not. That is how Gay White Men rationalize this preference.

This white preference that all gay men hunger for is traced back to media images of men we are bombarded with daily. The media, grocery store checkout magazines, and billboards along the highways. They have all screamed the same subliminal message – WHITE IS BEAUTIFUL. Gay White Men have been conditioned to be exclusively attracted to, and associate only with their race. It has become a subliminal preference. Take this analogy. All gay men accept being gay, and are attracted only to men. It is not a choice, as we were all born that way. Since gay men can’t control their attraction to men, Gay White Men feel attracted only to their race. Gay White Men are born that way. So it is a preference.

Many Gay White Men will only talk to and associate with each other at the baths, even on a social level. For instance, I wrote about this Russian guy I frequently see at the baths. Being closeted, he is desperate to connect with other gay men, even in a non-sexual way. I have seen him converse with every WHITE guy at the baths. Young & Old, Fat, Thin, Blond, Brunette, the list goes on. He has talked to everyone except me and other visible minorities at the baths. I have NEVER seen him talk with anyone of a different color. We have never exchanged one word, yet we’ve seen each other at the baths weekly for years. We have even been in the whirlpool together, and he never speaks to me. Yet, when a white guy enters the pool, even someone new – starts a conversation with that person immediately. There have also been a few times when he ignores me right to my face. I’m talking to a white acquaintance, and he’ll come up and start a conversation with that white person, not even acknowledge my presence or even say hello to me. Then he’ll leave, saying goodbye to that white person, and I’m completely invisible to him. Let me assure you; he is not the only white person who has treated me like I’m invisible. It has happened so many times by many other white guys at the baths. So shyness is not an excuse.

It is that subtle racism that is the issue. The Russian probably doesn’t even think what he is doing is wrong. It’s not out-and-out racism, where he asks people of color to go to the back of the bus. Many Gay White Men have never interacted or grown up with people of color. So, in the back of many minds (very subliminally), all visible minorities are invisible. The only men Gay White Men see are Gay White Men – Period.

99.9% of the gay population (Gay White Men) find me undesirable, invisible, and worthless. So, where does that leave me as a visible minority? Not much. These days when I go to the baths, I observe and am a voyeur. You might wonder, “Why don’t I hook up with a Gay Asian Male?” Because visible minorities can be just as racist as their white counterparts. Not against a different race but towards their own ethnicity.

I cannot speak for other visible minorities, but I can talk about how Gay Asian Men can be racist against their race. Just as Gay White Men have subliminal preferences, most Gay Asian Men have the same attraction exclusively to white guys. The Asian upbringing is oppressed, consisting of only attending school and studying at night. In adulthood, many Asians have major self-esteem issues. They lack the necessary social skills and maturity. In short, many Gay Asian Men continuously seek approval. I call it the disease to please. Many don’t even identify as a different race, shielded from blatant racism growing up. Gay Asian Men are oblivious to bigotry, thinking the world is one big happy family.

Since Gay Asian Men identify with white culture, it is natural they only want white sex. Seeing Gay Asian Men chase after Gay White Men at the baths is pathetic. Underneath this desire for white sex, is inherent repressed inferiority. Gay Asian Men trying to hook up with Gay White Men (as if white sex is better), is an attempt to fill their vacuum of self-esteem. Wanting to please a Gay White Man, these Gay Asian Men can receive the approval and acceptance they desperately crave. And the road to feeling secure is just around the corner, fleeting as that moment may be. Hooking up with a fellow Asian cannot fill the same vacuum of insecurity. Many Asians feel disgusted when interacting or even glancing at other Asians. Gay Asian Men, who feel this way, need to look in the mirror. Those feelings of disgust, are actually feelings of insecurity and low self-esteem.

The worst part is that white guys KNOW, and are fully aware that Asians find them irresistible. More than likely, this is why they treat Asians as a “backup” at the baths. They can hunt for different prey, and if that hunt fails to obtain anyone, they come looking for the Asian guy waiting in the wings, ready to give head. Unfortunately, that is the stereotype Gay Asians have. We are desperate, submissive, and subservient, willing to do whatever it takes to please. We, as Asians, perpetuate that stereotype because we appear desperate for white love. It can backfire. Some Gay White Men said they would have considered hooking up with a Gay Asian Male. But the desperation is just such a turn-off. So they shun any Gay Asian Men they may encounter at the baths.

With 99.9% of the gay population rejecting an entire race, what is a Gay Asian Man to do? Go for the next best thing, an older white man. Gay Asian Men are so obsessed with white men that even a 65-year-old is considered a catch. They see it as a status symbol, increasing their status in Gay Asian circles. It is a social-climbing function for some, whereby a Gay Asian Man hopes to improve himself, like some gold-digging female. When I walk down the street or even at the baths, you would not believe the amount of older white men with very young Asian men. It is astounding. Older Gay White Men love all of this Asian attention. Hell, the guy could be green, and if he was young and had a hot body, that is all that would matter. With the disease to please afflicting so many Gay Asian Men, many older Gay White Men take advantage of that.

Being with a Gay Asian Male that is very young, these older men can re-capture a bit of their youth. We (Gay Asian Men) have a youthful appearance regardless of age. Another quality is our soft smooth skin that is a delight to touch. Plus, Asians are, by reputation, very passive, subservient, and submissive in bed (in short, desperate). So everyone’s happy. The Gay Asian Man has a white guy (even if he is 65, being White is the most important thing for a Gay Asian Man). The older Gay White Man has a submissive bottom at their disposal. It is the perfect relationship! I genuinely believe if any of these older men took a pill to turn 21, these men would lose interest in Asians.

I did a calculation of the men commenting on my website. Who says they genuinely like Asians? 97% were all over the age of 58, some even over 70! I have never had any white guy in their twenties or thirties (who did not admit to being a rice queen) disagree with me about their turn-off of Asians. NOT ONE!

It hurts me when I see Gay Asian Men align with older Gay White Men like this. It hurts other Gay Asian Men because we are all painted with the same brush – a gold-digging male only interested in Gay White Men. No matter the age. Older Gay White Men hit on me at the baths almost every week. All because I’m Asian.

As a Gay Asian Male, you may be reading this essay and saying BS. But think about it. How come you never get noticed by any white guy at a bar, supermarket, or bookstore in the gay community? Why do the white patrons immediately get up and leave when Asians enter the whirlpool, sauna, or porn lounge at the baths? Why is it that in any orgy activity scene, you may encounter, you get pushed away if you approach any of the white guys going at it. Sometimes gently, other times forcefully. Do you ever wonder why all of the white guys are friendly to one another at the gym? But never talk to us Asians? Despite the fact everyone’s Gaydar is working at 100% capacity. The reason? Gay Asians are invisible and undesirable to the Gay White Male community, not intentionally but subconsciously.

Being rejected by many gay men can make you angry and bitter. Or you can say, we do not accept that! We do not have to be at the mercy of many superficial Gay White Men. As Gay Asian Men, we must eliminate the stereotype of desperately chasing after Gay White Men. We need to have more self-respect. Think of it as an iron door. Some have been in place for thousands of years. But there are other doors that you can kick open. By that, we must open our minds to different cultures and races. Why settle for White? What is wrong with a fellow Asian or a Black or Hispanic guy? If we restrict ourselves to Gay White Men, we, as Gay Asian Men, will continue to perpetuate stereotypes, and our self-esteem will take a beating.

But that is easier said than done. Gay Asian Men, who love Asians, Blacks, Latinos, or vice-versa, are a rarity. As I mentioned earlier, all those races chase the same thing – a white guy.

My hope for this essay and others I’ve written – is for minds to change. I’m not suggesting that white guys should be with Asians, because it is politically correct. Nor am I saying that Asians shouldn’t date older white men. If you are a Gay Asian Man genuinely attracted to an older man, I say more power to you. I am saying that Asian Men are viewed as undesirable in the gay community, particularly by Gay White Men – PERIOD. With the gay population as 90% white, we Asians don’t stand a chance of breaking into that circle. The sooner we, as Gay Asians, accept that, the happier we will be.

But how can we, Asians, be happy knowing that we are undesirable and invisible in the gay community? It is not easy. First, we must accept ourselves as beautiful people, no matter how many white guys reject us. You wonder what is wrong with oneself after being rejected so many times. I’m here to say; nothing is wrong with you. You are a great person, and you are fabulous. Don’t feel depressed or inadequate about yourself because the latest white guy has rejected you. It has nothing to do with you. You have done nothing wrong. The only problem is that you are not white.

Being with a white guy is not the end of the world. Have friends and hobbies, focus on your career, and try to get sex when you can. In terms of a relationship, here is my mantra. If it’s meant to be, it will come to me. Have an enjoyable and complete life, without a boyfriend. Be patient; Mr. Right (regardless of age or race) will come when you least expect it. Remember, nothing is wrong with you, even if any guy has rejected you ten thousand times.

After reading this essay, I hope some minds will change. That is all I wanted to do. I plan on being comfortable alone and wait for a guy, regardless of race. I hope other Gay Asian Men read this and look beyond a person’s ethnicity. Fall in love with the person and not their skin color.

Gay, Asian, Caucasian, Interracial, Racism, Sexual Politics, Grindr, Male, Men, Discrimination, Sexual Preference, White

Own this story and other sex racism stories by going to Amazon NOW and buying this book!

Gay, Asian, Caucasian, Interracial, Racism, Sexual Politics, Grindr, Male, Men, Discrimination, Sexual Preference, White

Read stories of other sex racism tales by going to Amazon NOW and buying this book.

You might also like:

Body Vs. Race
How a visible minority with a great body, can still luck out at the baths.

Rice Queens
How Gay Asians interact with one another, especially in a bathhouse.

Whites Preferred
Gay White Men defending their right to sleep with their own race.

GWM & GAM Speak Out!
Readers respond with their own opinions about racism in the gay community

The Truth About Gay Asians
Article on the lack of interest that white men have in Asian men, and of how even Asian men shun each other

Boiling Rice

Essay about Gay Asians confronting widespread prejudice in the nightclub scene.

230 thoughts on “Racism Or Preference?”

  1. As a GWM, recently out, I struggle with the message of the essay. I labored in a straight relationship before acknowledging reality. My GWM/GAM experiences are relatively few but for the most part memorable…typically tight, muscular, smooth, perhaps a bit above average stature (abt 5’9”),,very sensual and into physical contact, kissing and sexy talk. Asian cocks tend to be slightly smaller but more artfully used. GAM better tops (vers here). White dudes tend to be less imaginative, more robotic.
    The difference between sex and fucking.

  2. I find it goes all the same way. I am GWM more attracted to Asians but I find Asians, tend to avoid me because I am White.

    1. I think it is because you live in an area with a lack of Gay Asian guys. Trust me if you lived in an area heavily populated by gay Asian men, you’d be mobbed on an hourly basis. Trust me.

  3. I wouldn’t consider a dating or sexual preference for just white guys the same as being racist at all. Being attracted to a certain type is in your DNA it seems, and there is nothing adverse as far as your rights etc…

    Your distaste for seeing cute GAM dating an old fart as lowering himself in your “Rice Queens” post is worse in my opinion. Your saying that old is bottom of the barrel. Age discrimination.

    You also portray yourself better than the nerd in the bathhouse, as if your right to get laid was more important.

    So it’s okay you to judge people on their cover, but you can’t be assessed an Asian.

    Out here in Southern Calif where Asians are the majority in many areas, you should realize that I see a cultural gap, and because of self-segregation, it’s hard to get to know you when most younger Asians go to Korean clubs, Viet clubs, etc…

    Unfortunately stereotypes will remain (like tiny dick, garlic breath,pushy) til integration takes better hold, and sadly you might be screwed, or your being avoided because your carrying a bad case of self-loathing and it shows in your demeanor..

    Incidentally, I am lucky to call as one of my BFF a guy, last name Nguyen age 32,, and he has a plenty of teens and 20’s GWM notches on his belt

    1. You just stated it yourself- birds of a feather flock together. So why complain about younger Asians self segregating? Not everyone is “required” to deal with racism. Now that we’re all older, do you really believe multiracial societies work? Just look at the racial problems USA, CAN, AUS have. And even though Euros tend to be better educated (I prefer most of the cultures over there, especially compared to the “culture” one finds in southern CA or the US), they generally don’t want immigrants. Maybe the Chinese, Koreans, Japanese don’t want their societies to be full of race problems and ban foreign residents accordingly

  4. I’ve got a real sobering story that even turned me, the local president of the diversity and inclusion police, into a somewhat cynic. I was working my usual Sunday 10am-10pm shift at the sauna just after New Years Day 2015. Now, I’ve been at this for much of my life. I know the look most men get in their eyes when they finally found the door to their secret desires. I did not see this look in the 23-year-old black guy I was speaking to at the desk. Now, this area of Duluth is clearly downtown’s skid row. You are definitely an oddity if you have a car and for sure you’re an oddity if you’re white. Unless you’re gay, where no matter where you go, everyone’s white, everyone looks/dresses/acts/does all the same things, etc. While I liked working in a place so open to gay men, it became monotonous to see the same white guys day in and out, same kinds of clothes, same teeth whitener, etc. I live for differences and love to see exotic gay men who I’d love to travel the world with. I now see, many years after being out, unless you’re seeking someone who looks exactly the same as everyone else, you’ll be disappointed. I know I am.

    So that’s why I was so surprised to see ‘Tee’ in the lobby. Finally someone different! I was intrigued and wanted to be welcoming without being condescending or obvious. After grabbing his towels it wasn’t even five minutes later I learned this was a horrible idea. Tee, being from Chicago (some 600 kilometres southeast of Duluth) had one intention for being there: ripping off others when they least expected it. And oh was he good: he watched these men’s patterns so quickly that he watched where they’d be and when, and how to get into wooden lockers with cheap old locks from 1969. In and out within 15 minutes. Guys ripped off? About 12. Cash gone from everyone? Over $1500. Not to mention countless credit, debit, passport cards and drivers licenses ready to be sold underground. This kid really got us good.

    What bothered me more than the materials stolen was the fact that he, as a minority himself, understood that exploiting another minority group (gay men at a sexually oriented business were unlikely to report any of the missing items for whatever reason. This kid knew this already and RAN with it. He’s not even gay, then came into the business I was working for, ripped off anyone he could, then had the the guts to say he was unfairly targeted when I told him (on Grindr) that I knew his game, the sauna is completely under video and audio surveillance and if he set foot in our business again he’d deeply regret it. I’d see to that personally. Never saw him again. Which brings me to something larger:

    Gay readers in much larger, affluent, progressive metro areas are unaware what smaller cities have had to endure since I’d say 1992. Those with no money from urban black cities who often have hefty criminal pasts are coming to cities like Duluth in shockingly high numbers. Of course none are gay, because why would they come to a city with no gay people. They’re here for the 400 pound white girls who let them move in, steal their money, drive their cars, beat and rob them and finally before leaving of course, impregnating them.

  5. I just found your web site. I’m Asian who frequents a Bathhouse, and could not agree more regarding the racism issue. I plan on purchasing your books. Thanks for having the courage to speak out.–Ken Y

  6. Hi, Just my .02 here, but I’m a BI white male. Told I’m quite good looking, tall, naturally smooth, well hung, good shape and friendly. I love to kiss and cuddle. Being new to this part of my life (gay bathhouses). I was surprised to read these comments about the preferences of most gwm.

    Years ago I had an encounter with my first Asian man and with one touch of his very soft skin on his cute little ass, I was amazed how good it felt. Never had I felt skin so soft on a male. Even beat most females I’ve been with. Wow that was amazing. I’ll never forget that.

    I guess soft skin is big turn on for me. Perhaps being truly BI, I appreciate that more than most other men. If also found black males can sometimes have great skin too. Don’t get me wrong, I love a good heavy-duty sex romp, but after cuddling next to an Asian man is great.

    Well I may be an exception and not trying to brag, but I do love it all. I am a very passionate person and love to kiss. My first real man-to-man kiss was with an Asian man too. at the time I was in total denial of my sexuality and the fact that this kiss turned me on was very troubling to me for years. Today I am fortunate for the experience as it was part of the coming out process for me. Trust me, it took almost a nuclear explosion for me to come out. Well if you count sex with hundreds, perhaps thousands off of men in bookstores and theaters, two years of psychotherapy, well that’s what it took lol.

    Anyway love those soft compact Asses. Please keep coming back!

  7. I went to a bath house in Japan with a Korean friend. I found that no one was interested in me. My Korean friend told me it was because many Japanese men perceive Caucasians as dirty & diseased.

    In my experience in western bath houses Asian men tend to enter your personal space without permission. They seem to attempt to grope you to show interest. This turns me off. Most Caucasian men show interest through eye contact or body language. Asian men need to understand the social conventions and boundaries of the dominant culture – just as a Caucasian man would be expected to in Asia.

  8. I found your story “Racism” interesting . . . just as there are stereotypes about Asians only liking older men . . . there are stereotypes about young white men only liking other white men. I’m 36 and I’m in a long term relationship with an Asian man (41). White men who like Asians are out there . . . we may be hard to find. I’d say the problem is racism.Thanks for your stories.

  9. Your stories are very interesting and bring attention to the fact that there is, contrary to popular belief, plenty of racial prejudice in the gay community. But I do have to admit that I take issue with some of things you have written. First off you have repeatedly mentioned that most minority gays are chasing after white guys and that is just total bullshit. I am a 23-year-old black male from Miami and most of the black and Latino guys I have met tend to date exclusively men from their “race.” I have no problem dating men of whatever race but and I have dated white guys my gay male friends mostly black and Latin friends are not into interracial dating and it certainly isn’t because they get with white guys. I understand and have seen with my own eyes how difficult things can be for some gay Asian male but I think it has more to do with those men than with white guys or racism. How the hell can those Asians who are only into whites or white-Latinos complain about racism when they themselves exclude blacks, Latinos of color, native Americans, and worst of all their own race?

    You, my friend are a perfect example of this. You keep writing about racism and prejudice but you don’t seem to have dealt with your own racism and self-loathing, despite your honesty on the subject. A perfect example of this is the little poll you have on your website. Why is it that you direct the question exclusively towards your white visitors? Doesn’t it interest you how many other Asians like yourself are into white or how blacks, Latinos, etc. like Asians, whites, whatever.

    Do yourself a favor my friend and take the time to deal with your own self-esteem issues. When you do this it will be a lot easier for you to find the man you are looking whether he be black, white, brown, or hell who knows maybe even Asian.

    1. To Terry: get the hell outta this site ya fool. These stories have nothing to do with YOUR kind. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS TO BE A GAY ASIAN AND NEVER WILL SO SHUT THE F UP. I wont pretend to be black and talk about your life or situations. Just because you disagree with the author of the diaries doesn’t mean that the stories aren’t true…because everything the author says IS TRUE and it happens whether you believe it or not. IT IS RACISM. Why the hell are you even reading this site anyway? You have no worthy opinion on these issues Mr. Black Man Terry… you have no clue what the author and many other gay Asians have gone thru so get your fugly bs opinions and take them to a gay blacks website where you can talk about what happens to your race of gays. TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU KNOW WHICH IS NOT GAY ASIAN TOPICS YOU FREAK.

      1. F.A. I guess you’re going to tell me to shut the fuck up as well, but I thought your reply to Terry was quite racist. This isn’t a gay Asian website, it’s a bathhouse website that is written by a guy who is Asian (north) American and informed by his viewpoint. If Asians can only write Asian websites, that’s being pretty restrictive. And if blacks can only post on black websites, that’s restrictive as well. And I guess I’m trying to lord it over you because I’m white. And no, I don’t want to date you (personally) any more than you’d want to date me. Chill out, man!

        1. Charles gets your white trash ass outta this site too. What’s your business being in this site anyway? If you are a rice queen then get a life… if you are a fat headed white trash loser then get over yourself cuz you are worthless and so is your opinion especially on these topics white trash punk. Oh and all the other posts before Terry’s post under F.A. applies to YOU and YOUR kind as well. Hopefully you will be able to read it because you know what kind of garbage you are.

  10. White people gay or straight will always be racist towards our people no matter it be the racism of hatred or racism of actually chasing them because of their race alone which is also racism. Just read what that previous person who wrote under “Anonymous white male” many pages back. The stereotypes that he mentioned and the feelings that he clearly stated loud and clear about all gay Asians is the way every other race feels about us Asians. Trust me all white people feel the same way as that person who wrote under “Anonymous white male”… even some more Americanized Asian people feel the same way and hate their own race as well. The only solution is to hang out with Asian pride minded people gay or straight!!! White people are the most racist race in the whole world. Just look at whites history and what they have done to non-whites. America alone is the powerful racist country in the world along with Canada, Australia, and many more. America built its power from racism PERIOD. Just read the history books…. No not the ones written by white Americans because they always seem to forget to mention all the racism and disgusting things they did to Africans and Asians in America throughout the history to build its now most powerful country based on racism and white power like KKK. As Asian people we should all realize that the person who wrote under “Anonymous white male” is not alone in his thoughts and feelings. THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE LIKE “ANONYMOUS WHITE MALE” than you think! Do not be jaded and go into denial about what I am saying because it is true. I applaud all the sticky rice Asians in Hawaii and in Asian countries and 1 little establishment in a Canadian city that welcomes people like us. Don’t be a potato queen any longer people. WHITE TRASH IS NOT WORTH A THING.

    1. And another thing I forgot to mention is that if all you potato queens don’t wake up and notice that white people are not worth the desperation and adoration that you give them then you will never be able to love yourself and they will never love you. Sticky rice and proud Asian people will love you for who you are and love you as a person. If you happen to be with a white fool then most likely that white fool is using you for a short while just to get off because he couldn’t find another white guy or is such a loser that no one else will go near them. So they search for the Asian guys that are potato queens because they will say yes to any white trash loser. Just look at one of the past guest book signers that said he goes for “Asian guys because Asian guys are easier to pick up” and they are easy in general. White trash people like him are not worth selling your soul to. Rice queens are disgusting as well… read every article about rice queens out there and you will know what I mean. White people think they are the best race and that their views matter most so why would you want to sell yourself to evil disgusting white trash that will never look to you as an equal. A white guy will only look to you as a servant or maid or a pet or a slave that he owns. That is the white mans way PERIOD. Gay Asians may be the outcasts of the queer world but we don’t have to outcast each other as well. There are many groups of queer Asian pride minded people that have their own hangouts and clubs and places where they are not looked down on the way white people do. Search for them in your town if there are any. But if there aren’t any then it’s in your best interest to move to a city or another country where there are more places like the one I described. Whites are not worth your self-respect. Respect yourself and don’t chase after white guys like they’re a fountain of water and you are a dehydrated homeless person. White people are not to be in a relationship with. Work with them or be friends with them or live around them but don’t chase after them because they are not worth the trouble they cause.

  11. Just read your interesting article about Racism or Preference…. it seems unfair to me that you focus on white racism and ignore other forms. I am white but lived in Japan for 7 years; in Japan, the Japanese look down on and discriminate against all other races. There are Japanese gay bars, clubs and saunas in most cities that ban non-Japanese from entering (i.e. whites, blacks, Hispanics etc)…they are quite proud of it, and have big signs at the doorways displaying the fact. They allow in other Asians (spuriously arguing that it is because of cultural similarities), and curiously even allow in Japanese-Americans, which shows it really is just all about skin colour. From my experience, Korea and the Koreans are much the same. To some extent I sympathize with you….for a long time I only liked Japanese/Oriental guys, but was endlessly told by cute guys that they didn’t sleep with foreigners etc, that foreigners had AIDS (which is a joke because Japanese guys rarely use condoms for fucking with each other, and I am negative and have never fucked without one)…. anyway my point is that sometimes you have to accept the world the way it is. Rejection is never easy but at the end of the day sexual preference, even if it is informed by latent racist attitudes and prejudices, is still sexual preference and you cannot force people to sleep with you when they don’t want to. Don’t waste too much time worrying about what you can’t have…just go out and hang around with people of whatever race that go for Asian guys and who care about more than skin colour … or do you disparage and criticize these too for being racist, if they only go for Asian guys?

  12. Nice webpage. I am a GWM who likes Asians. So don’t feel like all of us are too old. You seem like a nice guy. If you ever make it to Chicago, please look me up. I’ll send you a picture too if you email me. (Sorry only G-availble)!

  13. Racist or personal preference assumptions. On individual pursuit: I read basically. American entrenched ideology, “United We Stand”?

    Conformed to assimilated thought opposed. To subjective nonsense,I find certain. Behaviors distasteful and unclothe does. So I’m considered prejudice yes, expect this. On attractions never had desire sleep. Twink,Transgender or African American men. Later, problem there lost out for. Personal sexual pleasures audacity write. Those not incline to dine or refine. To there nonsense, usually cruising! Always demeanor’s__effeminate so true! Tried reading,this harsh response. Natural sense because individuals dislikes. Your racism I prefer hung White cock! Yes, Mr. Jocks brush off Latins,Old Queens,Asians and Blacks. Most jokes refuse allow them. Entrance to use my body article. Is bias cease using color. Personal choice it’s my sexual choice. Can’t attract men not my problem. Black guys are racist saying. Whites are prejudice! San Francisco nice city until Gay trash! Destroyed trust!

  14. Nobody should have to make excuses for their sexual preference. Neither because you are a man and find another man attractive, nor because you are white and only find other whites attractive.

    Human desire isn’t politically correct. Sexual desire is a touchstone of a racial truth that seems to have become prohibited in other areas.

    I’m going to be very honest here, without apologies. Personally I find South Asians from India and Sri Lanka and Somalis repulsive. And so what! It’s what I feel. I like certain orientals, Koreans and Kyrgyzstan, but not so much Han Chinese or Indonesians. They are still way above the negroid races and Indians, in my book. But at the top are whites, with just behind them Arabs and Latins – although the whiter Latins are much preferred to mestizos and mulatto.

    There is nothing that can be done to change the racial pecking order. Sex is honest like that.

  15. I’m an Hispanic bi male and I prefer because of my experiences that my first choice are black men not because of their size but because I am a devoted bottom and they look for me and treat me like they really, really want me. The others, its a little more work to hook up with them. Because of this I feel I can connect better with black men. I am not “races” I have tried being with other races but it does not work. They seem to be very picky. Sometimes?

  16. Very interesting post – as a fellow East Asian I feel you have crystallised a substantial part of my thoughts over the past few years. I am based in Europe but the dynamic is similar here to what you write.

    One thing I have come to realise is that (East) Asians do seem to be near the bottom of the gay pecking order; aside from being blanked in venues, consider the amount of gay hookup or dating web site profiles that specify ‘no (East) Asians’. Fair enough you might think, until you try to think back to the last time a profile said ‘no blacks’, ‘no hispanics’ or the like. Are we our own worst enemies? What does everyone else think?

    By the way, I find your dimples quite aesthetic too!

  17. I just read your essay entitled “Racism Or Preference? (At The Baths)” and I wanted to let you know that it was an incredibly interesting read. I am a white male, and I’ve always felt that I’m one of the very few who doesn’t place high importance the ethnicity of my sexual partners. If I find someone attractive (looks OR personality), I’ll be interested, regardless of such superficial details.

    I have never really heard much talk about racism in the gay community from anybody other than black men, though I had noticed the vast majority of people who would discredit people for being Asian. Even some of my heterosexual friends say things like “Asians are so weird” if I show them a K-pop video or a photo of an Asian model (male or female) that I find attractive.

    I am glad to see topics such as this coming out of the closet, so to speak. People come up with such terrible excuses for not being attracted to non-white people, and act as if there’s no possible way to learn to love people for who they are, not what they are. When I was a kid I wouldn’t eat anything other than white bread, because other bread looked weird. Eventually I grew up and realized that other breads are actually better for me, because they have more nutrients in them that aren’t bleached out. I feel that it’s the same for people – to learn about other cultures and have friends regardless of ethnicity means that I learn many things outside of the whitewashed suburban world (I grew up in a small town with a majority of white people) and because of that I feel that my life is more fulfilling and meaningful.

    Sorry for the long message, but I do feel passionately about removing discrimination from society. xo Andrew

    p.s. your dimples are gorgeous!

  18. I just read your diatribe on how racist we GWM are. I normally don’t comment on things like this but blaming a GWM for NOT being attracted to you is a bit lame. EVERYONE has there own idea of what sexy is. I am a fit muscular athlete that loves, Latin, black, middle eastern, and white men but that does NOT mean I like ONLY THEM and only them for their skin color. There are many of each that I DON’T find attractive and many that DON’T find me attractive either and I DON’T CRY RACISM. I am 6′ 6″, and 225# and when I go to the baths I get some attention but also I get IGNORED TOO…. that’s LIFE. Also, I always politely decline an advance from someone I don’t find hot; whether Asian or any other race. However, I sometimes need to get more aggressive with the decline before it sinks in. MANY TIMES its the Asian men that DON’T accept my polite decline and continue to persist at me and grab. So sometimes those responses are from men like me who have tried NICE and get ignored and have to resort to aggressiveness to get the point across. You also mention that Asians are racist to other Asians. I believe that is your main challenge. Also, you declare that Asian men are predominantly passive in bed, which is MORE of the reason I tend not to connect with an Asian man (not because of his skin color but because of his desires which are the same as mine). I have been called ROUND EYE by a few Asian men in an airport and I found this very rude and racist but I don’t go on and on about it in a silly blog. I however, am a civil man and will acknowledge and speak to anyone within a conversation and NOT completely ignore anyone. That man’s behavior is unacceptable. I concur. I don’t condone racism but crying racism cause you don’t get what you want at a Bathhouse is a little exaggerated. Instead, work out, get fit, and love yourself inside and out and those you desire will find you. This bathhouse blues stuff is so unattractive and passive aggressive.

    1. I’m a GWM, and I can say that when I have tried to hook up with people online or in real life, the hottest and most eligible men who would give me a chance were all non-white — black, Hispanic, and Asian. I’ve gone out or hooked up with a few men that I would have thought were out of my league, especially in terms of their gorgeous bodies, who were Asian or black. It took me a while to realize that this was because non-white men are treated as low on the totem pole, and hence, by comparison, I have an advantage. I don’t know all about gay Asians and can’t account for all of their behavior, but I’m sure some of them are aggressive because they have to search for someone commensurate to their own level who will not ignore them for being Asian.

      “Also, you declare that Asian men are predominantly passive in bed, which is MORE of the reason I tend not to connect with an Asian man” —

      This sounds very racist to me. Maybe most Asians prefer to be passive, but I would bet that most gay men of all backgrounds are passive, the rest of us just put more effort into hiding it, coming from more macho cultures.

      Ultimately, I want to do better in my love and sex life, and can’t really say I’ve found satisfaction, but I will suggest, if you loosen up and stop worrying about people’s supposed “races” and all the baggage that goes with that, you’ll find there are a lot of hot men you could be getting together with.

  19. I just read your diatribe on how racist we GWM are. I normally don’t comment on things like this but blaming a GWM for NOT being attracted to you is a bit lame. EVERYONE has there own idea of what sexy is. I am a fit muscular athlete that loves, Latin, black, middle eastern, and white men but that does NOT mean I like ONLY THEM and only them for their skin color. There are many of each that I DON’T find attractive and many that DON’T find me attractive either and I DON’T CRY RACISM. I am 6′ 6″, and 225# and when I go to the baths I get some attention but also I get IGNORED TOO…. that’s LIFE. Also, I always politely decline an advance from someone I don’t find hot; whether Asian or any other race. However, I sometimes need to get more aggressive with the decline before it sinks in. MANY TIMES its the Asian men that DON’T accept my polite decline and continue to persist at me and grab. So sometimes those responses are from men like me who have tried NICE and get ignored and have to resort to aggressiveness to get the point across. You also mention that Asians are racist to other Asians. I believe that is your main challenge. Also, you declare that Asian men are predominantly passive in bed, which is MORE of the reason I tend not to connect with an Asian man (not because of his skin color but because of his desires which are the same as mine). I have been called ROUND EYE by a few Asian men in an airport and I found this very rude and racist but I don’t go on and on about it in a silly blog. I however, am a civil man and will acknowledge and speak to anyone within a conversation and NOT completely ignore anyone. That man’s behavior is unacceptable. I concur. I don’t condone racism but crying racism cause you don’t get what u want at a Bathhouse is a little exaggerated. Instead, work out, get fit, and love yourself inside and out and those you desire will find you. This bathhouse blues stuff is so unattractive and passive aggressive.

  20. So I’ve never been to a bathhouse but I read your article on race, the first one, and I can’t speak for others, but I have to disagree. I am a GWM and I’ve had Asian, Black, Latino and White boyfriends. None of them were better or worse than others. If I was in a situation where I honestly had to pick I’d probably pick an Asian guy over a white guy because I find most white guys to be stuck up and annoying and the Asians I dated smelled better. I don’t know if that’s a generational thing, regional, or if I’m just randomly weird but there you go.

  21. I am both dumb-founded and surprised on the behavior of gay Asian men.

    As for the author of this site: I should say you did a very good job … But don’t be so hard on yourself!

    I always wondered what would happen if I ran into YOU in a bathhouse? I am sure I would be attracted, at least the picture with your “dimples” looked really cute … But would you say hello to me or ignore me?

    I think the latter 🙁

    First of all, I have been through the same BS you have been through – And I am NOT Asian.

    Yes, indeed … It hurts. A lot. Seeing the guy turn away. Seeing the attitude. Seeing the “cold shoulder”. Touching his hand and being slammed … Or even worse, hearing “Don’t F—ing touch me”!

    I think you got the Asian thing all wrong in a sense. Being cursed to rejection and attitude is NOT because you are Asian … It;s because you are GAY – Period.

    With online dating, I see differences. I like the Asian men, but I see many on there going with ONLY their own age (for example, a 21 y/o with a person similar age, and such) … Yet, take a trip to the baths, and I see a “21 y/o” going with 60++

    Maybe you should avoid the baths altogether?

    I think the rules are twisted and different there … Non intuitive, weird, and superficial so bad you’ll be convinced your’e “ugly” when you are not!

    My main point here is that the way you describe “Asians Vs Whites” in your write ups are a bit biased towards the untrue fact that whites “hate” Asians.

    There’s something for everyone. Trust me, you have NO IDEA how many times I heard “I hate Blacks” and “I don;t date non-Cuban guys” in my neck of the woods.

    Open your mind, and your heart.

  22. I’m a GWM who, I would say, is not a rice queen. I grew up in the rural South and I don’t feel I possess the racism you talk about in your entries. Out of the sexual experiences I’ve had I’ve been with Asians, Whites, and Spaniards, and not because there weren’t other races around. Just thought I’d leave my opinion here to be counted.

  23. I noticed the “racism” you talked about, but it hasn’t appeared to be as bad for me. Recently I just went to Toronto to visit two bathhouses for the first time (actually my first bathhouse visits ever). I wasn’t particularly looking for sex but just checking the places out. I got enough hit-on I think. You are a self-respected person, but I can feel your anger and lack of confidence while I read your articles. It might be better if you stop going to bathhouse, if it is such a disappointing place. We all just want more fun in our lives, right?

  24. I got one thing to say about you so called “Asian” people – Chill the $#@% out and lighten the %$#@ up!

    Stop prowling for old men and people your age (20’s and under). That’s not only disgusting, but it really enforces the “old man” stereotype you always complain about.

    I was at the local club here a month or so ago, and I was one white guy, amongst about 20 Hispanics, most of them Cuban.

    One Asian man walked in, and he was about 40 y/o (may age or so). He sat in the corner, all miserable, shy (or down right IGNORANT to be exact). If I (or anyone under 60) sat next to him … It was like some “hot plate” made him jump up and walk out as if he saw a ghost.

    Not taking that as a “message” … I made the mistake of touching his hand as he passed me. I wanted to make sure he knew I was interested in him, and I found him to be “cute”.

    He snapped around, stingingly punching (not slapping – Punching) my hand away and saying, “Don’t F— touch me”! I was so upset. I walked in front of him, and DEMANDED and answer on WHY he would treat me so BAD.

    Maybe he thought I was his ex, or “the Cuban who robbed him”. I don’t know, but I saw the evil and angry look in his eyes. I never seen a “stranger” so mad.

    I affronted him again, and told him “I simple no-thank-you would have been nicer!” and after him walking away, with not a single word and a long face … Only the words “You fucking dog-eating Gook” got his attention for a record-breaking 2 seconds.

    I am sorry, but I LOST IT when I was treated with such a “Hate at first sight” response.

    Later on, I saw him sitting on some old 70+ 300+ LB Jewish man like if he was his slave. I guess that answered my “question”.

    Take a look at YOURSELVES (you know who you “stuck-up” Asians with issues are) in the mirror … You really should LIKE what you see…

    I LIKED what I saw, but why was I treated like I broke a law?

    1. Good day all … I apologize for being So harsh on my last couple of posts. I learned something highly important the past week.

      First of all, my company sent me out of town I (reluctantly) went out to a local Bathhouse, with very little expectation. I saw a LOT of Asian guys there, many of them younger than me, and expected (or assumed) many of them to just waltz right by me.

      Boy was I wrong. 17 (yes seventeen – I counted) approached me, all offering me either a drink (there’s a bar there) and / or me going to his room.

      All in all, I “topped” about 5 Asian guys, a RECORD for me, within about 4 hours time. All were NICE. All were CUTE. All were YOUNGER than me (one was 22, the oldest 38). I am 41.

      Most importantly, I was appreciated for ME, and there was no attitude. No pushing away. No F— you type of stuff I heard for YEARS in S FL. Just a friendly smile going from eye to slanted eye 😉

      I am ashamed, and embarrassed (both from the way I was treated (in FL) and assuming Asians were like that EVERYWHERE).

      I apologize, as I really need to consider moving (or at least temporarily re-locating) as it appears south FL is the problem (not ALL Asians in general).

      I again apologize for attacking and generalizing about the Asian community here in the USA, using the (corrupt) city of Miami, FL as an AWFUL example.

  25. First, I’d like to thank everyone for voicing their opinion on this subject. Second, I’d like to point out that I just turned 21 recently, so I may be green, but my opinion should still be valid and somewhat enlightening for people out there watching an emerging younger generation.

    I don’t consider myself really good looking, not because I have a self-esteem or confidence issue. I just don’t feel vain, and I know there are many better looking guys out there. However, that doesn’t stop the hundreds of men (young and old, of all races … Asian included) from hitting on me and asking me out, or offering $2000 to give me a one time bj. Why is that? I don’t know what goes on in their head, but I think that a lot of people have an Asian fetish these days, especially b/c many good-looking Asian people appear on the news, YouTube, movies, and Asian dramas imported from Asia. And if you have ever been to Asia in the last few years, you know there are some serious eye candies over there. And we’re talking about hundreds of guys who belong on TV screens. That’s just the new generation that I’m living in. The majority of us fit what westerners define as the model minority in terms of brain, personality, attitude, competence, virility, wealth, lifestyle, habits, and physique.

    I admit there are still Asians who will date only whites. I was once in that position, not because of what the author described, but b/c I grew up around mostly non-Asians and could only apply the concept to beauty from what I experienced to whites (media really has a powerful influence there).

    The first guy I dated was actually white. The story??? 1) At the time, I didn’t want my parents to be able to communicate with my bf, so non-Asian was the best choice. 2) I pitied him because he didn’t have anybody. Was he good-looking and fit? Not according to what people tell me. But I wasn’t (and am still not) a picky person. It has always been about personality to me. Why? I was raised that way. Simple. I found him cute sometimes and his personality agreeable, so I dated him.

    I never thought I wanted to date an Asian for the parental interference reason that I described, but things changed dramatically when I met my current bf, who is 35yo. He’s 14.5 years older, same ethnicity, also speaks the ethnic language, same stubborn ass personality as my own sibling. He’s the antithesis of everything I wanted when I was younger. Guess what? After falling for him, I came to realize that I like older Asian guys (I still find non-Asians attractive, but don’t really want to date them for anymore). Thank goodness my bf doesn’t look as old as his real age is (his body, on the other hand, tells a completely different story unfortunately). He thinks that he’s below average and I’m above average in terms of look, but I find him the most adorable person (and cuter than myself whenever I’m with him for some reason) on the planet and the only one I want to enter me. We’ve had our ups and downs with him breaking my heart once, but we’re still together. People say I’m a big time idiot who has bad taste (he agrees), but I believe I’m just an average Joe who fell for another average Joe : )

    What my experiences boil down to is that the time has changed. The younger generation is making more ground in the gay US of A, and I have seen many many more Asians that only want to date other Asians than the author believes, so DON’T BE SO PESSIMISTIC!! Travel, take another look around, and inspire your readers with a new outlook.

    P.S. Sorry for being long-winded.

  26. Your articles of racist in gay community are so true!!! I am an Asian. I am now traveling in South Africa Cape Town. I went to a famous local gay bar once. I stayed there for 3 hours. no white talked to me. only friendly black gays and a lady talked to me and introduced me to their friends. this is my first time went to a gay bar. but I believe I had the worst experience. There was a white guy who spoke to me”I’m not interested” even I didn’t say a single word to him! I just looked at him for a second and he said that. Moreover, when I was passing by a white crowd,(I was not trying to hit on anyone in that group), there was one white guy who just literally pushed me away really hard. I was so pissed off but I couldn’t say anything. I was the only Asian guy there that night. such a horrible night.

  27. Having read the racism article there are two things I’d like to say. First the article is very true. I’ve noticed this a lot in my small town of Sarnia. Second I would totally hookup with an Asian guy though age would be the determining factor as that is my “racist” preference 🙂 You have said you’ve never had anyone in his early 20’s sign and state that without been a rice queen. Well I don’t know what a rice queen is (I’m new to all this) but I can say I don’t look at anyone different. I think it would be just as hot to do an Asian as it would to do a black or any other race. I like diversity. And white people can be boring lolz. I’m 21. 🙂 Hope this restores your faith in us white guys. There are a select few of us that are different. Of course if you Asians only bottom that would be a problem. I don’t top (lolz):S

  28. I really enjoyed your essay on racism. I must say I feel they same way at times. When I first realized I was gay, all I had was XY magazine and porn sites that only had white men. After many years of only having white gay media, I started to think I am ugly an undesirable because I’m black. Even among the blacks, guys either prefer a GWM or a thug… After a while it became exhausting trying to find love or even sex being invisible. On sites like dudesnude or a4a I rarely get messages or responses unless it’s an older white guy. It seems that the gay community as a whole only Cherishes what is youthful and white. Thank you for writing your essays, in a way it’s great to know someone out there feels the same way I do.

  29. A lot of this Asians being unattractive thing is their own making. After living in the US for a few years, I found a very clear pattern that unfortunately most Asian, including those US born, are still clueless about: begging on your knees, wistful eyed, saliva drooling, and you drive away the ugliest, most desperate guy!

    Yep, that’s the American way, folks. Because according their logic, you are then giving them license to do whatever they want and they, most Americans, simply cant resist a chance to get to reject! Logical? Not in my Asian book, but that’s the western “culture”, more so in the US than say Europe.

    Sadly, so many clueless Asians “continue to do the same thing again and again”, that it is now already too late. Asians are easy, open to you any time, any looks, and any age, is by now an entrenched image that one rare, occasional good-looking guy with the “right” (American) attitude doesn’t help any more. One ready example: your very website here, pouring out your heart, profusely, untiringly, unreservedly, yearningly, openly, publicly about how as an Asian you’d love but cannot find a white guy who would be attracted to you-from my one minute glimpse of a page it also seems you poured your heart to a non-Asian about this misery, right?

    Who suggested white=Asian speak page. Well, you then have successfully dressed up a prince as a street beggar, and you want to sleep with a beggar yourself? In doing so you in fact also helped confirmed, laid bare (whether true or not) the idea that all Asians are desperate, and now look what have you and so many others have done to them! Hahaha. I see in porno’s certain type of guys (minority, I am sorry I have to be honest here) who literally make me puke! Yet hunky, handsome white males willingly submit themselves (Yeah, not just one) like a dog. They drool, suck and then turn around to give up their plump Asses. Why? The right attitude (ever heard of reverse psychology, dude? the more you appear confident and not begging, the more you attract) that is propped by the notion that they are all horse-hung (not true), all tops and macho (again not true). In America, an image blinds everyone, creates a trend, before long everyone wants to get on this bandwagon, be “fashionable”, be “cool”, even if it demands a proud handsome guy to be fucked like a dog on camera, he wills himself into thinking that he’s won admiration of the whole world. That’s also how presidents get elected.

    America is a shallow place with shallow, easily maneuvered people, but the maneuvering is not simple, it takes resources and control of the media, it takes individuals’ “helpful details” like everyday attitude, so on. If one day the porn industry decides to make Asians super sexy, your luck is in! But then it does take more people (Asians) willing to take porn jobs, or, you need even more media campaign to convince.
    Now, I happen to find Latin’s and Arabs and such very sexy, and much, much more down to earth (only in sex) so when I was young (middle aged now) I had much luck with them (not saying you should try too, hahha). As to handsome Asians, I find them marking up their standards with other, equally handsome Asians, and that’s their own loss.

  30. A GAM must be a modern phenomenon; certainly sounds like GAMs over 40 are a rarity. The reality is that one-day the young GAM will become a senior citizen; how will you lecture them then. What is the scene for seniors who are Asian?

  31. I really don’t know what the hell is going on this website. All I’ve noticed is a lot of anger towards other GAMs for self-loathing, and a lot of bitterness towards white men for not choosing you to have sex with. Perhaps you have a point about a GWM’s taste for flesh in his own hues, and yet all the images on this site are of gorgeous white boys as you preach the beauty of Asian men and how we should interact with each other more. As a reader I’m confused about the precise point to your many angry “essays”. Perhaps there are still some underlying issues that you’re unaware of yet.

    Asian men are hot, as I am one, and goddamn it I’m hot. In the bathhouse with my clothes off I rarely have trouble hooking up with cute men of any race, but then I’m not angry with them all and perhaps that makes me just a bit more approachable. Of course there are other factors, too. I also live in a major U.S. city where people are educated and perhaps less prejudiced as the result of education. It isn’t a criticism on your opinion, just an honest report of my personal experience. If someone doesn’t want you, move on. Trust me, there are plenty of cute white men who are into hot boys of color.

    Don’t hate ourselves, and don’t hate others either because they are not as enlightened as we are. No one can help who is attracted to. In the end, it’s only sex if you’re seeking in a bathhouse. There are far more exciting things when you seek elsewhere.

    You DO make a very good point about Asian men going for older, less attractive white men, though. I’ve certainly seen and been disgusted with the sight numerous times. We need to behave as if we’re NOT 2nd class citizens ourselves if we want others to view us as such.

    Peace to you all and good luck in the dating game; hope everyone’s happy in the end.

  32. Hi – gr8 blog/ site… but I do think you are over generalizing just a little ala the whole white guys not liking Asian guys thing. I am a 35-year-old Aussie guy who has had three long-term relationships (2 yrs+), one with a white guy, one with a Chinese-Vietnamese guy, and one with a Filipino guy. I am normally attracted to Asian guys and generally, this is reciprocated. No, not 18 year olds, but guys of all ages… And I see many other guys ‘mixing it up’ (so to speak), with the vast majority not being the 60 yr old GWM 18 yr old GAM paradigm. Maybe things are different in the US – but here in Australia, I just don’t see this as a massive issue. Not saying some white guys here wouldn’t discriminate against Asian guys etc, but to say 99%… jeeze….

  33. OK, I read your stuff, so here it is as I feel. So don’t get offended, as it’s nothing personal.

    All I got to say about GAM, as beautiful as they are, is that sometimes I just want to deck them right between their slanted eyes. Well, not really that harsh, but at least slap them and / or shake them as to get at least some sense into them ;-(

    Yes, the frustration on my side is there. The low self esteem of GAM, and the attraction I see with younger GAM towards white men MUCH older than them. You Asian guys hate it so much when someone calls you a “potato queen”? Oh, well … YOU named it, you claimed it!

    I will put forth ONE experience (of many) of the “young for old” dilemma I have to put up with GAM 99.9% of the time at my local baths. I am not talking just young (in his 20’s), but pretty buff and hot (muscular) build as well. This “to die for” Asian man would simply scoot over (away) from me when I sat down, or down right walk away, giving me a dirty look in the process.

    My “first thought” was: “OK I am 39, he’s 20 or 25, I can understand that”. But my jaw dropped when he goes down orally on a 300 LB old Jewish guy in his 60’s. I tried to join them, and he pushes me away so hard I nearly fall down with the words “Back off!” … Just before the “old man” began bare backing this guy, I could not see (or eat my heart out) anymore – Enough was enough!

    What is it with this behavior? This dude was in his 60’s, overweight, bald, gray hair, and probably not even worth while (he drove a Chevy Malibu for Christ sakes)!

    OK, so I am sure you are ready to say: “This was just ONE example”, right? Not really.

    This happens about 90% of the time. Just for your edification, I am 39, 185 Lbs, short brown hair and eyes, average build (big chest), hairy, White – Mix of German and Italian (maybe the latter is the problem as I see most Asians do not like Latinos, and I look like one sometimes)? Other than that, nothing to be so AFRAID of ;-(

    Just about every time I see a young Asian man at the club (baths), I get the “see-saw effect” … When I sit down next to him, I activate some sort of switch, and he gets up and walks away (then sit down next to him again later, and same thing – he gets up as if my presence “shocked” his tight ass or something).

    Second, when I see a similar GAM approaching me, there it is, that all-to-familiar RIGHT TURN away from me. Third, older Asians, even some down right ugly ones, with glasses and all that, also REJECT me (usually the “excuse” is that they are “shy”) … Anyway, I get turned down.

    Also, when an Asian man is “going at it” with a man two (or even three +) times his age, you would think me being there showing interest would make the GAM there happy … NOPE … I either get a dirty look and / or attitude. I actually heard one GAM (with a man in his 70’s with WHITE hair) mumble in my presence: “Let’s get away from this UGLY white idiot staring at me”! Who the fuck was “ugly” there? But it’s all RELATIVE, right?

    The remaining 1% success comes from overweight and / or VERY old GAM, sometimes being in another city helps a bit, but mainly if that city has a LOT of Asians (statistics 101 – get rejected 90% of the time, and 1 GAM in the club usually means I meet no one / but if there are 50 GAM in the club, that 5 of them gives me some sort of “chance”).

    So the last thing I want to hear on this page is the “20 year old with the 45 y/o” paradigm. I am 39, so WHY can’t I be accepted by an 18 y/o GAM? This is TOO complicated. Any YOU (the author) … LOL, I hope I never run into you in any bathhouse … I am sure you would run away SCREAMING if you saw me!

    After about 4 to 5 years of rejections and frustration, I gave up … Did you ever hear the expression: “You despise what you cannot have”? We’ll that “what I cannot have” is the young Asian (Thai boy or twink), you know, usually with the cute face and longish “mullet” black hair … I despise that now.

    I liked you guys at one point, but NOW have learned to stay away from the pain and cock-teases, sometimes leaving the club altogether if I see a lot of GAM and lots of older white “trolls” there (it GROSSES me out seeing geriatric sex like that).

    Thanks to you (GAM) and your HORRIBLE tastes and preferences, you now have one less (and cute) middle-aged man that likes you. I am now trying to settle down with a guy from Kansas, blonde and white, and about my age … The drama is gone with that too.

    Good luck with fulfilling and REINFORCING this awful stereotype that makes so many people HATE GAM and anything to do with them.

    Ahhhh, feels good to get it all out, eh?

  34. I have read many and MANY entries (both on this site) and others of the large age spread between gay Asians and White guys – Many with the GAM being in his 20’s and the GWM 40+.

    I have noticed a few things with this, either proving it wrong, or maybe it’s just me (?) … First of all, outside of Miami (FL) and in many other cities (with a lot of Asians) I have noticed that any one GAM, even slightly less than my age, avoided me.

    Any Asian in his 20’s, forget it – Off limits for me. Sp how on earth does a 45 y/o man go with a 20 something Asian guy? I certainly cannot see that, so I cannot quite get it.

    I look a lot younger than I am, so maybe that answers my question, but maybe not. I dated many Asian guys, and am currently settling down with an Asian guy now, but he’s 3-4 years older than me.

    Most Asians I have been with were NOT younger than me, except for one in his low 30’s last year in Chicago.

    So try not to assume that GAM goes with GWM twice their age 99% of the time, to me it’s more like 40% of the time.

    I also noticed this patter with 99% of gay people – Asian or not – Going with young and older men. Hispanics are also noted to date much older me too. I have seen it.

    Maybe in my neck of the woods, MONEY drives this old white young “magic”? So be very careful with the stereotyping.

    Otherwise, I cannot understand seeing some 25 y/o Asian twink with some 60 y/o Jewish guy … and to me, it’s simply NOT right ;-(

  35. You have the GWM/GAM attraction completely wrong. I think you are trying to use some justification that makes you feel better rather than just accepting the way things are. I could list a number of your facts and prove them wrong but that is too long so I will give you one. The media uses whatever sells. If minorities sold their products and made huge profits for the company that is what they would use. There is no hidden agenda in marketing where they are really trying to convince the viewer that white is the most attractive. They only want to sell their product. They are interested in the profit.

  36. Hey there, I have to be honest that your blog resonates a lot of truth, but there is no mistaking that you have been too badly hurt.

    Yes, I know that many people have pointed this out to you before, and I can bet that they are either GWMs who cannot fathom your perspective OR they are GAM who feel unfairly diminished by your thoughts; the point I am making is that you can not define your course by the reactions of other people, regardless of their identities. You cannot reserve the right to give white guys bad PR because of sour experience. Simultaneously, you cannot adjudge GAM in the same way. It’s just not healthy for your soul.

    I’m a black guy and trying to say this objectively, I think your sensitivity is based on too many external factors. If you still bear resentment of ‘the desire to be desired’, move to South Africa. We’re a much nicer bunch of people. Don’t get me wrong, the prejudices exist here (after all, we were taught to hate), but we have a much easier time letting go of such anti-social nonsense, especially with a personality & brain like yours!

  37. Hello, I’ve been reading your diaries for a long time, because I was curious about bathhouses.

    I also feel concerned by the other main subject of your texts, racism within the gay community.

    I’m a gay white male in his mid 20s. I do like Asians a lot, but not exclusively — I could go out with guys from any race. But my Asian boyfriend is attracted almost exclusively to white males.

    I live in Paris, and here Asian gays also feel a little rejected, but a lot less than what you describe. I have many friends who like Asians, without being rice queens. There’s a big Asian community here, but Asians remain somehow exotic, rare among the gay community. There are some cities in Europe where there are very, very few Asians. We went to a bathhouse in Copenhagen, where there aren’t many Asians, and my boyfriend got looked at a lot.

    I think that in Europe, even if there’s still some racism, or at least people who stick to their own race, gays do like people of different colors. Black and Arab guys have lots, lots of fans, Asians maybe not as many, but still. And many people don’t really bother which color you are. And to me, mixed races are the tops…

    Interesting thing: here, straight Asian guys predominantly date Asian girls, whereas few gay Asian guys date there “own kind”. Maybe race is a smaller issue in the gay world.

    I believe guys who disregard Asians are sometimes narrow-minded. Sometimes it’s just a matter of taste, but sometimes they should just try it. I wasn’t especially into Asians before I met my boyfriend, but now almost any decent looking Asian guy around my age catches my attention. And I know the same happened to other people. Asians often have characteristics so many gay men look for — smooth and almost hairless skin, slim and well-proportioned bodies, always looking younger, etc. why aren’t all gays running after them???

    If you ever come to Europe, try a bathhouse here, and tell us if it feels different.

  38. Hi, I come from the UK; there are lots of people of all different races and ethnicities in London. That said I’m just not attracted to non-Caucasian features. I’m white and reserve the right to only date other white men. That doesn’t mean I don’t want to be friends with Asians, just so long as we’re both clear nothing could ever happen, unless some how the Asian was blessed with Caucasian features and a big dick etc. It makes me very happy when I see Africans dating other African men and Asian men dating other Asians because I know the relationships are equal.

  39. I’m a Southeast Asian boy who was raised in predominately “all white” towns. I was inadvertently raised to be only attracted to white guys. I mean that’s all I ever saw. Even in porn most of the guys shown were white. For a time I was convinced “white=beautiful and others should be ignored.” I wasn’t trying to be a self-hater, but I was not exposed to anything otherwise. Even when I saw an Asian or Hispanic or black guy I thought was attractive, I would look the other way. I was young, what the hell did I know. I wanted my first experience to be with a white guy. (I wanted something familiar and what I was used to). I remember a time when in my profile I included “whites only”. Does that make me racist? Yes. Only because I excluded people I didn’t even take the chance to get to know. I excluded people I didn’t even bother to look in the face. If I saw dark hair, dark skin in the corner of my eye I ran the other way. (Without even looking at their face, mind you). To me, ALL NONWHITES were ugly. However, when I finally moved into a bigger city (Dallas, TX), I saw a whole lot of nonwhites. I mean, the ethnic population was pretty much 50% white, 50% non-white. (I’m exaggerating my numbers, but that’s what it appeared to me at first) I saw Mexican guys who were hotter than Enrique Iglesias and Ricky martin. I saw hot Indian guys, hot Egyptian guys, and even hot Chinese and Korean guys. I mean, I don’t know how it happened, but one day I just actually took the time to look at someone who was non-white and realized that “damn, he’s smoking hot and he’s not even white”. I started to realize that they don’t all look the same. That some are but ugly and others are drop dead gorgeous. For me to put “whites only” on my profile really limited my access to hot guys who could have been excellent candidates for sex/relationships/etc. So far, I’ve only had sex with one hot Mexican and 1 hot Indian guy, but I am very open to trying more. (Ok, my ramblings are leading to something…I promise.). So, the moral of my rambling is this: Every time you EXCLUDE a particular race from any opportunities or exposure to yourself, you are practicing a racist behavior. (Don’t worry; it’s not your fault. Its behavior and a way of thinking that you learned growing up.) That is a behavior that most people will grow out of when they get older, become wiser, have traveled more, have seen that Earth is not predominately white, and realize that being white or looking white does not automatically make you “hot”. People go thru different stages of awareness in life. You can’t change someone. They have to want to change or change on their own time. If you haven’t noticed already, the reason why you see older rather than young white guys dating Asians is because the old white guys have had time to progress out of their old way of thinking. (They are wiser, have traveled more, have seen the world for what it really is, a really diverse Earth and FYI the majority of the world’s population are Chinese and Indian.) “I ONLY DATE WHITES” is not a personal/or sexual preference. It is EXCLUSION BASED ON RACE. “I MOSTLY DATE WHITE GUYS, BUT AM OPEN TO DATING OTHER RACES” is more reflective of personal/sexual preference because it DOES NOT EXCLUDE PEOPLE you have not even seen yet. “I PREFER TALL GUYS, SWIMMER BUILD, LIGHT HAIR” is more reflective of personal/sexual preference because race is not mentioned. Anyone from any ethnic background can fit those categories: for example…Hispanics and Asians can be born with light colored hair (I’ve seen blond Latin guys, and Asians with naturally brown hair, even though it is not predominate. I have seen Asian and Latin guys who are over 6 ft tall. etc etc etc)

  40. For six years I worked in a bathhouse twice a week as an HIV prevention counselor. Although tempted on occasion I never did go as a customer. My life has been spent with two lovers. The first lasted 16 years and we got together at 20 years of age. We even raised his younger brothers. My current lover and I have been together for ten years. Both are Asian men. So maybe I am the exception to your article. I genuinely find Asian men attractive, and white men as boring as dish water. Also, I don’t know about this submissive Asian stuff. Both my lovers have been and are willful as sin. That has always been my experience of Asians. They are the most willful and stubborn of God’s creations, and I wouldn’t have them any other way. I don’t want someone I can run over. Do you? Not all white men are rice queens. Some of us really like you guys. : ) If that were not the case there wouldn’t be row after row of Asian porn films in the DVD stores. It’s not like there is any shortage of porn with white guys, right? Guys buy and rent those tapes because they genuinely like Asians.

  41. I’ve been intrigued by your blog. I’m a white guy who lost his virginity to a Vietnamese. My best experience was to have been topped by a Malay. Maybe it’s odd to be the bottom for Asians and not the other way. Clearly they weren’t effeminate but set the mark for me. Also, were more moderate in size so I could really enjoy the experiences. I’d love to meet other truly top Asians but find it hard.

  42. As a mixed-race guy (Chinese, Hawaiian, Portuguese, English), my personal experiences about race vs. preference are pretty clear. Utah is very much a homogenous State; where nearly 90% of its population is Caucasian. It is true that many GWM will associate with other GWM; but I factor in the demographics as its reason. Even my inner circle of friends is predominantly Caucasian. I can’t speak for anyone other than myself, but I’ve had more than my share of encounters and relationships with GWM. And yes, there are those that would prefer other men of color before considering the Asian option. Gay males being the overt and closeted size queens that we all are tend to buy into the stereotype of Asians being shortchanged in the meat department. True, certain Asian groups represent that stereotype accurately, but hey, haven’t we all seen white guys and black guys that are hung like mosquitoes. My assessment is that Asian features are delicate, and many equate that with having feminine qualities…a bit of a turn-off for gay men. I believe we all have mental checklists of what we find desirable in a partner or mate. So I would have to side with those who agree that we all have preferences in what we find attractive. Seems pretty clear to me.

  43. What an eye opener! Or rather what a mind blower. It was GREAT to read about your experiences and get in touch with the truth of the situation. As a GAM I have been so blind to it all, and suffering without knowing why. How do you change a lifetime of media-induced attraction to GWM? I even recently fell in love with a straight guy friend (blond hair blue eyed). He is being so nice and kind about it and still wants to be my friend. Good thing he isn’t gay or I would have been rejected a long time ago! But then if he was gay I don’t think I would have been able to hang out with him long enough to fall in love lol because I would have been invisible. Thank you SO much for writing about this. I have some serious rethinking to do.

  44. I just started reading your work, and I like it a lot. Very thought provoking.

    I’m a GWM, but not a typical gym bunny or musclebear or what-have-you. Sort of a queeny, fierce, crazy, chubby, hairy mess. 43 now.

    But I’ve been sexually attracted to a wide range of men as long as I can remember. I first started sleeping with Asian men, nearly exclusively, when I was 22 and lived in Japan. That changed a little when I moved to Seattle when I was 32, and there were fewer Asian men around, but then it changed back (for the better) when I moved to Vancouver when I was 40.

    And I’m the passive one. I might look like someone’s daddy (and my partner laughs whenever someone mistakenly refers to me as his daddy–he’s four years my junior, we met in Japan 16 years ago, and yes, we have a mutually open relationship although we are still happily having sex with each other. TMI?), but when someone, Asian, Hispanic, White, whatever, takes control of me… I’m melting…

    So I don’t fit in to many stereotypes, but I do enjoy the conversations you’ve started on race and sex, and I agree, love should indeed be blind.

  45. You make some very legitimate points, however, keep in mind that there is a difference between overt racism and social conditioning. When someone says they’re not sexually attracted to a person of a particular ethnicity, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re bigoted. There are people who are truly racist and obviously not attracted to, whomever, and then you can have someone who was raised in a very racist environment, who loves only ethnic minorities, this being a reverse psychology thing, rebelling against the values of ones upbringing.

    I know of one cute WASP guy who goes nuts over and will bed only big black dominant muscle dudes.

    By his own admission, his (wealthy) family would disinherit him if they knew about his proclivities. I’m not even certain if he’s “out” to them as a Gay man, but that’s a whole other issue in itself, isn’t it.

    And then there’s everything else in-between.

    Actually, all these are related issues; because we’re talking about life in an extremely dysfunctional community, and no it’s not easy being a minority within a minority, however, keep in mind that self esteem issues across the board are a big hurdle even for many of the people you complain about.

    Gay people are great at putting on a brave face, to each other and especially under scrutiny of the public eye, but the fact remains that internalized homophobia and other issues remain after all these years of “Pride”.

    And Lord only knows, AIDS has only exacerbated the many issues afflicting the Gay “community” (such as it is).

    I don’t want to get into a whole thing about rampant hedonism and self destructive behavior in the face of potentially fatal and burdensome consequences, but the bottom line is that most Gay men have self esteem issues and spend much of a lifetime working on how to accept themselves and be accepted by everybody else. Learning how to accept others is a part of the curricula that tends to takes a back seat.

    As part of the exercise, try and accept the possibility that when some people say, “it’s a preference, not a prejudice”, they’re telling the truth.

    Gay people live with harsh criticism and doubt and we tend to manifest these characteristics and project them on others (as well as ourselves). For many, life in the Queer community is a real love-hate relationship.

    I remember a Gay pride march years ago, listening to someone say: “Gay Pride is the only day when everybody is nice to each other, tomorrow morning we all back to treating each other like crap for the next 364 days of the year”

    Oh well, whaddya gonna do, we’re not going to solve the world problems in our lifetime.

    So my suggestion is to take your pleasures in life as you find them.

    Stop seeking a pure ideal that is seldom achieved. It’s not impossible to find people who are truly objective and without bias, but don’t hold everybody up to that lofty standard because most people are not in a position to throw stones, and that includes you.

    Gay men are not operating under ideal circumstances. That’s an understatement. We are laboring under a code of sexual politics without precedent in the history of humankind. We’re living in a world that talks about condoms, dental dams and even celibacy.

    Dental dams, how royally fucked up is that!?

    OK, blow off steam, work it out, change your look, re-invent yourself, talk, blog, blab and whatever, but don’t let this grow into an overwhelming obsession or crusade.

    After a time, you need to come to terms with it and move on with your life and say screw everybody and everything, I’m claiming my space, I’ll pick and choose as I like.

    The energy you put into life, your attitude, perspective, persona etc. defines how and what you’ll get out of life.

    Life is all about compromise and concessions, everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY is bound by this rule, no exceptions

  46. Interesting blog. A viewpoint I don’t usually see.

    The racism that GAM’s encounter is apparently bigger than I knew. I didn’t think is as zero, but I almost feel a need to apologize.

    As a white, somewhat older (50’ish) guy who is attracted to any man who isn’t a non-hairy white guy, I really don’t understand why gay guys are prejudiced against Asian or black guys. I can see it happens, but it sure doesn’t make much sense.

    Hope things go well for you. As someone who has had some serious crushes on Asian men (and black men, Hispanic men and furry men of any description), I wish you well.

  47. I am a married, white, male, 38 years old, professional in the government service, and with advance graduate degrees until the doctorate level. In short, I am the traditional while male figure that is stereotyped by our “vainly wicked” society. I worked with the Army and the Air Force for nearly 10 years, and have found out the more sleazy side life of the people there. It is very, very true, that the general American society is a truly dishonest and pretentious society, which speaks the other thing but does the other thing. I detest this in all my wits and whatnots.

    I was born in a traditional American family in a suburban Eastern United States, and grew up in a strongly knit family-oriented home. Yet as I grew up, got married and have families of my own, I seem to conclude that other societies can be better than us, in many sense than one. Take the case for example of male sexuality. We adore the traditional white male figure in all his glory, laud and honor. Yet, I am a full witness to this that more than half of the American white male is a true, genuine gay by heart, head and hand. Add to this, the one-fourth who are closeted gays and bisexuals, and the remaining 1/4 as undecided of their sexuality but seem to lean as effeminate or semi-gays. I have been a steady patron and customer of the many, many bathhouses since I was age 19.

    And every weeks and months in those nearly 20 years, I have been to the bathhouses at least once or twice a week. With these trips, I have seen countless cocks and dicks, of all sizes, shapes and colors. I have made love to thousands of men, young and old, rich and poor, blacks, whites, browns, reds, and yellows. I have made sex to many countless groups of people from 6 continents the world over. I have undergone thousands of possible positions; and if ever I have to estimate the amount of semen and sperm that have passed my hands, and chest and face, it will surely fill an Olympic-size swimming pool. Mind you, fellows, I am telling you my own personal experience from out of my own normal, sane, sober life.

    Now, I have to enlighten you with my conclusions that:

    1. White males are pretentiously strong and straight guys, yet in the inside of their hearts and minds they are in most cases, GAYS.

    2. White males, if only given the chance to be able to express themselves without all the inhibitions, event if they are married for many years, or work in the military, of whatever “manly” professions, can be very very gay as they can.

    3. It is a great myth that white males; possess superior dicks and nuts in size and capacity.

    4. Many many many many white guys have small, tiny dicks, and even tinier balls beyond that of peanuts or corn.

    5. It is a myth that White males are really virile and masculine, as many are gays in both physique and emotional stability.

    6. Non-white guys, such as the Asians, Hispanics, and Native Indians have very superior cocks, dicks, thongs, or whatever, far far longer and bigger then many white guys possess.

    7. What you white guys thought of that you are superior is because you do not know at all what is there on the other side of the fence.

    8. Black guys also possess much superiority then white guys when it come to all forms of human sexuality, most especially male sexuality.

    9. Black guys have far larger and bigger, and better dicks, cocks, and balls than all of you white guys combined.

    10. Therefore, thus, henceforth, so, white guys, you must need to educate yourself, and stop thinking of yourself as too highly as you are the kings and queens of this world.

    You are nothing and you pale in comparison compared with all the other nationalities all over the world. Do you understand, huh, white damn stupid white guys???

  48. Regarding the issue you have with GWM not taking on a GAM.

    I among the other side of the coin, as a GWM now 42- I have spent a long time trying to date and enjoy GAM. I also enjoy Latino guys and Black guys too, but for the most part I prefer people who have a bit more skill above the shoulders than below the waist. But, – when it all comes down, I feel that Asian guys have some of the most beautiful & sexy bodies around, and – in fact quite very sexy. From Philipino, Chinese, Thai, Cambodian, Vietnamese, Malay, Pacific Islander, Polynesian, Korean and Japanese.

    Asian guys vary and are so different from race to race and I find many of them to be amazingly beautiful and unique. In fact, if I had more time -I would love to be able to go to a sauna (or at least find one!!) and be able to hook up with an Asian guy(s)– people assume because of what I drive or that I am a blond, blue eyed white guy – that I don’t prefer other Asian guys – which is not true. But when I go out with my Asian friends- I notice that people stare or sort of just watch me.

    When I am in a small group of guys and I am the only white guy – at a club having fun and laughing and really having fun–Asian guys (on the outside looking in) act like the Asian guy who is with me is because I offer him money, or that we are just weird. But I look at it this way, I love Asian guys and have always preferred the body shape, color and everything (btw the small Asian guy “thingy” thing is a total myth- OMG its a huge myth –LOL!!) over white guys– I am in south OC, California and the beaches are full of tanned muscled rippled white guys – and sure they are eye candy but they are not much beyond that– I would prefer to spend some time with a guy – who is Asian.

    I do admit a few of them are a bit – glittery, but I also like to have friends of all different shapes and sizes and personalities. Its what makes a get together fun and interesting. Give me a sauna of naked Asian guys and I would probably have a heart attack and die (LOL). I don’t look that bad either, I have started to get in better shape, and people are carding me, doing double takes when they see I am almost 40–I have been ooh so lucky so far, knock on wood. Now, were do I find Asian guys who wants to be liked by me? Oh and no I am not looking to be someone’s sponsor – FYI.

  49. I love your blog, as a gay black man I can totally relate to what you’re saying about white gay guys being the “standard”. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been pursued because I’m black and therefore expected to be a top. It makes life very aggravating

  50. I don’t care what your race is. Hot is hot! I was not considered hot when I was in my 20/s and 30’s, but when I hit 50, yes. Can’t figure that out. Before, I was constantly rejected by all kinds of men at the bar –except Asians, who were not there. I seem to be attracted to some men of every race, but not because they are of a particular race. Its that something special, knowing who they are, taking care of themselves but not all day at the gym [Gotta have a life], and sure I like certain physical traits but will drop that in a second for a sexy man without it.

  51. Hi there….your stories/chronicles are enlightening! I am a 48 yo GWM that adores Asian men but, contrary to your opinion as to why that is the case, I realized my affection for slender, smooth, smaller-framed Asian men when I was 15. GWM have no appeal to me. I am going to a bathhouse called the Club Body Center in Providence tonight. It is the first time that I will venture to a bath venue and found your site – what a coincidence, reflections from a man that represents my “preference” writing about bath houses. Very nicely done I must say. But tonight I am going to look for sex with an Asian man – not a Caucasian. Not to fulfill any sense of domination or insecurity but simply to find what I really like sexually. Write back and say hello!

  52. I read your story with much dismay. I am a GAM born and bred in NYC. I have noticed the discrimination you speak of but only one facet of it. I am almost only attracted to other Asian guys. Always have been and probably always will be. Whether it be LTR, casual relations, or ONS, its been 98% other GAMs. I honestly don’t think it’s a fetish or anything, just that I feel more comfortable and familiar with guys of my own race (its also an attraction thing.) Back to the discrimination, because of my preference, I actually don’t pay much mind whether or not GWM, GBM, or anyone else is really paying attention to me because I’m probably not paying attention to them. I have witnessed though, the discrimination of Asians for other Asians. It really breaks my heart. You are right about the whole self worth thing. It tears me up that some of us don’t see how beautiful and valuable we are to each other. So I really relate to this point you made in your blog entry. Being that I am one of the “rarest” forms of GAM, it really limits my pool tremendously. Just thought I would share my thoughts.

  53. Your blog is awesome. I’ve never seen so many issues raised in a single place.

    The racism you encounter is disgusting, but I understand it in a bathhouse. If a guy is turned off by another guy, nothing is going to happen.

    I started going to the baths when I was 27, and I go frequently. There are days when I can do nothing more than think of cock, and I almost end up at the baths then.

    There isn’t a racist bone in my body. I’ve made it with guys of every race imaginable. I’ll admit to being a size queen, and if they’re hung, I’ll be hitting on them. BTW, I’m really into uncut cock, and it seems that there are more uncut Asians than cut, so I find myself cruising Asians a lot.

    I wish you nothing but the best in your endeavors!

  54. Hi, I really loved your essays. These are all enlightening. I understand your view on the preferences issue. It must have been form from your perspective in your surrounding area. It may however, be a different view in other areas much less other countries, as noted in the various responses you received. But generally, you did strike a point there in the fact that most Asians prefer the white male. This is of course due to the subliminal effect of advertising. Most of the ads present the all glorified white male/female figure. And these images are stored in one’s subconscious, ultimately forming a certain image of what one wants, ergo the white male/female persona. In some areas of the world where the white image is not so prevalent, the other colors may have emerged as dominant.

    I should say this is a matter of perception of the collective. That goes to show that these preferences phenomenon you are blogging about may be changed in the future when the economic tastes of the business world change gears and go for the Asian/exotic side of things. In some areas this has been happening now.

  55. Thanks for posting your bathhouse blog. I find the stories…interesting! As a gay Asian male also, I can certainly relate to some of your experiences, especially with respect to our (GAM’s) place among gay men.

    One thing to keep in mind is that a gay man (or woman) is like any other person in society – the only common element is that we are all attracted to people of the same sex. Therefore, we may be considered a “community” only because society thrust that term upon us. Other than that, as an individual, I am sure I have a lot more in common with some of my straight friends than some of the gay men and women out there (yes, you, Mary Cheney). To conservatives, we’re all faggots and should be doomed in hell.

    I think there is a tendency to assume that because gay men and women are discriminated against, they should know better than to discriminate and form stereotypes of others. This just isn’t the case – sucking dick doesn’t make one more enlightened…it just means that they like sucking dick.

    I used to feel really strongly about the interactions (or lack thereof) between GAMs and non-Asians (especially Caucasians), but as time goes by, you worry less about these things. You pick your friends, find someone you’ll be happy with and go on with your life. You can volunteer or work on projects that help dispel racism, which may be more effective in the long run. Being out and proud will do a lot more to change people’s attitudes. In the fifteen or so years that I have been out, I see a big change in how people interact with me. Maybe it’s just me, but I think it is bigger than that. Happy scoring!

  56. What an interesting find. I’m half Asian from Chicago and feel I understand most of what you discuss in your diaries. Of all your discussion points, I believe the one most relevant to me has been the feeling of being “less than perfect” as a gay Asian male. Being that I am half Asian, I am a mixture of physical characteristics (such as a hairy chest from the non-Asian side of the family), but it has been the Asian facial features that seemed to dominate my feelings of self-worth and place in the community. I have been very fortunate and with a great partner (younger than me, by the way) for 13 years.

  57. Appreciate your conversation-starter on racism in gay bathhouses, and I agree that racism has shaped many a gay man’s desires, particularly here in North America. However, there are spots in the world where gay Asian men are able to act as sexual subjects — seeing other Asian men as attractive. I live in California, and I’ve been able to observe behavior and desire that affirms me as a gay Asian man. At the same time, I’m not naive enough to believe that simple geography (and a growing critical mass of Asian people) has completely impacted the very deep learning that goes into our racist desires.

  58. I’ve read a handful of entries you place on here and It’s quite a interesting read.

    I can see a lot of discrimination in the community labeled in ‘preferences’. Althogh not just for Asians.

    It may be different for Caucasians, but for me being a black male from Buffalo, I find myself pulling away from my own type moreso then anything. I’m into Asians, into Caucasians, native American, etc. You name it, I’d probably keep an open mind to it.

    However it takes a bit more for someone within my own race to really catch my eye.

    Thanks for posting your entries 🙂

  59. I’m a professional musician (classical): I grew up with lots of Asians (Korean, Chinese, Japanese background, mostly), went to school with them, work with them now. Not a lot of this strikes me as genuine…….

  60. I find all this to be very interesting. It’s bad enough that people discriminate us b/c of our sexual orientation; it’s doubly offensive when we discriminate within our own group (as gay men).

    We need to do a much better job of dealing w/diversity. I know we might various types/preferences, but we should expand our views of people and who they are. You’ll truly miss out on getting to know some interesting people.

    The best way to learn about people is probably dating/getting w/someone outside of your race. That is how we can help put an end to racism. Plus,we need to be more open to men of different races, ethnicity, and cultures (as well as shapes and sizes).

  61. Man, do I feel left out. Nobody ever told me I wasn’t supposed to like Asian men! In fact, I am very attracted to Asian men, and no, I’m not 60 years old looking to pick up an 18 year old Asian kid. I’m 27 and would go for someone close to my age. Honestly, I’ve always felt that Asian men thought they were a bit better than white people…not in sexual terms, but in general (I had a lot of Asian friends growing up…Taiwanese, Korean, Indian). So, imagine my surprise reading this article.

  62. Bro. I hear what you are saying and have read most of your articles. I’m a GAM with white parent (adopted). I grew up thinking that white is better for some reason. A lot of what you said is true. I like to date only White and Latino men, although some Asian men catch my eye. Is it a low self-esteem problem? I’m not really sure what the answer is, but it may just be it.

    Now, I consider myself a good-looking guy, toned body, even light tan (I love my skin), and a really cute face (not trying to be conceited). Now, I’m 31, but I look 24-25. I take very good care of myself. Oh, one last thing…I’m a doctor. So why is it so hard to find a good looking, young white guy? Is it racism among the gays? I don’t know. I usually get attention from women and old men of all races. I get harassed by black and Indian guys a lot and old white men. Also, when I was in Europe for the summer. I had no problems with young white guys. I really felt wanted over there. Not so here in the states.

    So, how do I fix my own hang-ups and how other people view Asians?

  63. Well where does an Irish Lad start with all this?? First I should point out that Asian guys are a fairly new phenomenon in Ireland, since about 2002. Most are from south and East Asia in their early 20’s and are here to study. So we don’t have the same view of Asians as most of your contributors and commentators in this blog. Asian guys here have started with an equal footing in society here. I suppose this gives Asian guys in Ireland a much different perception than what seems to be the common view. About 5 years ago, you just wouldn’t see an Asian guy in a gay pub or club, never mind a Sauna, but now they are part of the weekend scene. They are in demand, that is clear, and not by balding overweight and behind-the-door-when-god-was-giving-out-looks type guys in their late 50’s!! It’s not unusual to see a typical young Irish Dublin guy with an Asian bf or mixing with a group of Asian guys in the pub. I am guessing that in North America it all started with first generation Asians arriving with a refugee status and little education and with no opportunity to integrate into North America’s society. And so that perception carries to this day. I believe this is one of the reasons white North Americans have never treated Asians with respect and a sense of equality and still do not to this day, regardless of being gay or not. Has anyone taken any time to think when they last saw a white girl with an Asian guy? Never do I hear you all say?? Well it’s not just a gay Asian situation. Not so in Ireland as above!! For myself yeah I like Asian guys, and I also like white. But there is an air of something special about an Asian guy that you just don’t get with white guys, don’t ask me exactly what it is, I never sat down and wasted time to work out the equation!! We don’t worry about what it is, but that it’s there and that’s all that matters. I can only offer two thoughts…

    Asian guys you move here and you will have a lot of young white sexy accented Irish guys chasing you down the halls of the mood lit sauna, pub and club!!!


    Don’t bash the white guys so hard; after all, it’s the white guys you love!!

    -Aaron, Dublin, Rep of Eire

  64. With the larger Asian population on the West coast, finding rice queens and guys that are non-discriminatory towards Asians is easier. Add to the fact that I am attractive (not model looks but I do have examples to back up my claim), and I do get my fair share of boys. With all that said, I have experienced some of the things that the author has talked about. More so in the West Hollywood culture. Have I felt overlooked? Yes. Could it be because I’m really not as attractive as I think? Possibly. Could it be because the young, innocent look is not their type? Possibly. Could it be that it’s my own preconceived notions or insecurity and that everyone gets overlooked as much as I do? Possibly. Could it be that I’m giving off an unapproachable vibe (since I’m so good looking and all — that’s supposed to be sarcastic)? Possibly. Could it be that I’m to blame since I haven’t interacted with anyone outside of my friends? Possibly.

    So I’ve accepted the fact that to a certain extent it has nothing to do with my race. But I can’t seem to shake the feeling that there is still a level of sexual discrimination out there. The clear example would be on personal ads where a lot of posts would say, “No Asians.” By my observation, I think this comment only slightly edges out “No Blacks.” So I do believe that sexual discrimination does occur. I’m not angry about it anymore, just disheartened by it and of course frustrated at times by it. Though I am quite lucky and I do get a lot of attention, which is probably why I’m not angry. But I do know other Asians that don’t have it as easy as I do. So I can only imagine people out there that would get angry and frustrated and ultimately settle for their white male, however old their white male is.

    All in all, I am a bit disappointed in the author. Almost every other article will point out that he’s not getting laid, only to blame it on the fact that he’s Asian. And he also lambastes Asians out there that seem to date 50+ men. He doesn’t seem to consider that there might be other factors that come into play. As someone that prefers big, buff guys (who generally prefers other big, buff guys), I understand that my short, medium build might not be attractive to them. I also prefer guys older than me (still under 35), not because I am settling, but because I prefer a mature personality. (Though at 28, a lot of guys have hit that maturity level that I like).

    But I must also compliment the author that he does bring up the issue. The guest book definitely shows that the topic has sparked a lot of discussions and thinking about the issue. Dialogue is key.

  65. You should know that I am an older GWM and that, in all my innocence, I am really surprised by the foufoufara; RE: race preferences, and welcomed the expanded view on the subject that you offer in your crisp, personable writing. Obviously, you have given the matter a great deal of thought and have spent a lot of time in public pickup joints.

    That, together with your Chinese heritage, should give you a certain authority on the subject. 😉

    The 3 or 4 essays that I read left me with a real sadness. If low self-esteem (LSE) is as prevalent as you portray among GAMs then that may be an indictment of a racist society, and perhaps of the family culture of these men. Is LSE as much a problem in 3rd generation Chinese gays as 2nd? Is it really an issue, or is it the perception of one GAM who frequents bathhouses and has had long-term esteem issues?

    I wondered about the personal baggage you bring to this issue. There is a certain obsessive quality to your bathhouse observations, and you do allude to psychiatric medications. Your candor and (perhaps unintentionally humorous) descriptions (that asshole Russian/German) only underscore that what makes a person attractive, huggable, is his personality, and you have the bonus of being Asian. But in your case a low self-esteem Asian who goes to the baths? Perhaps guys of all races who want quick intimacy as an antidote to there low self-esteem. Why aren’t Asians hit on? Perhaps they stand aloof, are too superior to make the first move; perhaps they are just so fucking beautiful that they are intimidating to the Russian oaf. (My self-esteem is way too low to visit a bathhouse, and I don’t care for damp surroundings.)

    Finally, I wonder if you would comment on the term ‘Asian’. Do you mind being lumped together with Japanese and Koreans, not to mention Filipinos? The few ‘Asians’ I have had relationships with did not seem to care to be lumped together. For myself, I don’t care for the overly broad term ‘Caucasian’, though they may be all the same to you. There’s a world of difference between a Celt and a Slav, but I gather from your writings that a white is a white a cock is a cock.

    Oh my, I had a senior moment! There was another point I wanted to make. I have always been attracted to ‘Asians’, from a young age. Their smooth bodies, beautiful skin, pouty lips, dreamy eyes, untouched black hair… I loved just holding him as he slept. It had nothing to do with submission; in fact I wanted to serve him, to have him pound my ass, to leave his seed of a great culture deep in my rectum.

    Anyway, I thank you for directing me to your essays and will look at them all more closely at a later time.

  66. It’s been awhile since I’ve visited this site, but I thought I’d actually comment on it. First off, I enjoyed the stories. Like everyone says, they are very insightful. Next, I’ve seen a comment or two about the whole preference issue, and maybe it is your area? I myself am both half Mexican/Euro, but I never see too many issues on the subject. I’ve dated two Asian guys, two Mexicans, and although I never would have thought it, I even met up with an African American, and usually I don’t find them attractive. Everyone has his preference, I suppose where you are, the preference must be consistent.

  67. Just for record, I am a GWM. I, like you frequent the baths in my area. Although you have more experience and documented journals of them!

    I must say that I have to disagree with your essay on racism/preference. Perhaps I am the exception? I TOTALLY adore Asians, Blacks, Indian (Eastern or American), Israelis, …Men of ALL nationalities! I just love men! However, I DO have my preferences! Although I am completely color blind, I tend to lean toward the thin guys, Small framed or short (however you want to put it) and generally like them young and smooth.
    This is ONLY a preference! It isn’t to say that I haven’t been with the occasional chub or bear or any other type for that matter! It is the bath, and I for one want to experience all that out there!

    I just wanted to put in my 2 cents, and thank you for your very complete and for the most part accurate journal of “how it is” at the baths.

  68. This is my first visit to your site and the first article that caught my eye to read was the one called “Racism or Preference (At the Baths?)”. I just finished reading it and haven’t yet read anything else yet on your site but I had to stop and comment. What an amazing article. You reveal much of yourself in that article. You delivered an unexpected point of view to me that kind of caught me by surprise by providing me with this little bit of insight into the lives of gay Asian American men. I had several thoughts and feelings flow through me as I read it, and they were all sort of contradictory thoughts and feelings at the same time. Racism is such a big word to use when characterizing an entire group of people. Yet I couldn’t help but also notice your broken heart over feeling overlooked by some who you could have cared about had they allowed you to. But I had difficulty with your analysis of how they came to overlook you and your theory of why they act this which you stated was based upon your historical knowledge of their general upbringing and supported by your own personal observation and experience over a long period of time. Yet I also couldn’t help notice your apparent live and let live attitude and your willingness to apply the same sword to your own race and the similar foibles you have observed which you have come to give the same name to. Actually, that really didn’t strike me as all that noble since you gave the pointy end of your sword to the other group, keeping the weaker lesser blunt end for application to your own group.

    Yet your words do offer up something greater than your sword. Underneath it all there seems to be hope. Though maybe you find you are not getting all from your life that you desire in this area, you seem to suggest that things will change one day. I don’t quite know why I think this about your essay, but I do. I forget which music group said this but it’s so basic it’s a wonder people don’t always and forever remember that underneath it all, all anybody ever wants is to be loved.

    But forcing somebody to have sex with you who don’t want to, regardless of why they have chosen to dismiss you is certainly a difficult fight for the warriors of justice and equality to demand equal treatment at that level. One is only born into this world with one thing, and that is your body. When one’s power to control one’s own body is taken away from him, he quite literally has nothing. And as a gay man, you well know that the whole point of equal treatment for gay people is to gain control over our bodies by asking for the same rights as everyone else has, which is simply to be the last word on what will, or will not, be permitted to be placed upon, or into, our bodies. We simply wish to be allowed to choose what we will do with our bodies at the same level under that law that everyone else receives. In short, we want the payoff that everyone else gets who follows the law and respects the rights of others and in exchange for that is permitted the privilege of selecting how the matters of his body’s pains and pleasures and preservation needs are resolved. Because these three things, and these three things alone, are the sum total of all that will concern a person in the pursuit of happiness.

    So, I ask you, and I say this as a fellow lover of bath houses, if they bring you nothing but the naked thrill of nakedness yet consistently leave you with a vacant heart, why do you return over and over again to a place you know for certain offers even less than a simple acknowledgement of your existence, and even less sympathy for your warm and human needs. And why do you seek out not just one or two of these places, but in fact, ALL of them in the world? Would not reason suggest you might be looking in the wrong place?

    But, I cannot end there. IS a way for you to have your bath house and eat in it too? Why not build one of your own? Where YOU can set the rules, and were you CAN expressly forbid what can and cannot go on at that most intimate of physical levels between two people? Why not open one where you get right out there and toss out anybody who you see expressly ignoring someone else who they shouldn’t be (as defined by you, of course). If you let you mind wander a bit I bet you could start coming up with all kinds of ways to get the races to get in there and get each other off. Cause, in your place, the issue doesn’t have to be swept under the table. In YOUR place, it’s the big thing. The thing you get labelled for being. The place where you get to say to those who choose to come in (and read all your signs and banners clearly posted by the front desk alongside the no drugs lip service message and the proclamation that this is a gay club, god damn it, and you’d better love gay men and have no problem with them fiddling with each other’s private parts around you and even possibly attempting to fiddle with yours, and alongside the only one of those signs that really means anything thing: no refunds. You can just add your own sign that says that if you even suspect somebody didn’t blow somebody else cause they are of a different race you will be on them so fast and embarrass them so much and possibly even force them to choke on it themselves before you’ll let them go back out on the street and do their mean and creepy and hopelessly inbred ignorant stuff that they do that they do like not getting all naked and hot and sweaty and fluidly and intimately and lovingly and sweetly and honestly and hopefully and, sigh, maybe even somebody to love me…..as long as they’re the right colour.

    Because I just have to, oh I hope the people I reject won’t think I’m bigoted, but, shhhhh, I am really REALLY not attracted to those kind of people over there that look like that. I mean, I can be friends and all, and I even DO have those kinds of people as friends, but, oh, when I’ve got a hard-on and am hoping to fall in love with a good sweet man just like my dear old dad, just like my mother had, well, wouldn’t that be swell?

    And besides, look at him, he’s angry as hell at all of US, why in the world would he think I’d want to FUCK him, much less trust him for love.

    But, shhhh, he might hear. And besides, I heard he’s actually going to open a self-righteous bathhouse of his own where he’ll be on PC sex patrol making sure nobody gets out without touching somebody gross. Bet the fatties and the trolls will LOVE it though…
    (But don’t you know he’s secretly hoping it’ll be there when he’s old…?)

    So, my warrior friend from the eas… uh, I mean, from right around here..yeah, from right around here. I’ve never noticed you before but I’m starting to hear you’ve become quite the militant queen with your high and mighty PC-BH Chain.

    Dare you risk taking a stand where you live?

    Or will you continue to wander the UnPC gay BH world with a heavy heart and the relentless suffering of so many pricks right under your nose…, close enough even to touch….

    But you can’t.

    Waaaa waaaa waaaa.

    But it’s not my fault, it’s THEIRS! ..(those beautiful bastards…)

    So, what is it? Love or hate?

    I’d love to open my own bath house. I’ve wanted to for many years. But I haven’t done it…. and so I don’t have one. And I really wish I did….

    Say… you got any money??? Come on…

    …cause where money’s concerned, I’m not as white as you’d think…

    damn it.


    (see how unpretty that blunt end of the same sword looks?… can you even believe I wrote this like this?….why, full of shit I must be…what the hell am I even trying to say. except that you were awfully right about a lot of things in that article and some pertained to me. but I know it won’t change me because it’s not something I want to change. can we still be friends anyway?…besides, as you can see by what I’ve written here, regardless of who I am or what I look like, I’m the man of nobody’s dreams…) just hopeless poor pitiful me.

  69. I am a GWM who just read your Racism essay. I am not a “rice queen” but I am as just as likely to be attracted to an Asian as to a Hispanic or to a white. I admit to being “older” (50), but I look 40 and was an SMM (Straight Married Male) until 5 years ago. I think I was race indifferent in my 20’s, but at that time I wasn’t out even to myself, so it’s hard to say. I do acknowledge that with the prejudice against “older men”, it is sometimes easier to find someone I like who happens to be Asian. Is it two rejected minorities finding each other?

    On a separate note, I have often found people to “talk with” in saunas, particularly as I travel outside US. I have even made lasting friendships with some.

  70. I like this post…I think its unfortunate that minorities do the same thing to themselves…by preferring whites…I think the reason why so many prefer whites is our media and racist cultural roots here in North America…Men in Europe and other parts of the western world, love men of color…

    However I would say to any man who says he is 100% not attracted to a minority.. What if I dropped you in the middle of “jungle Africa” for YEARS. Are you saying you would go without? I doubt it. No man can say what he would or would not do given TIME, DESPERATION, AND OPPORTUNITY…

    In short, men are sexual. we know that even a straight man given time, desperation and opportunity ( jail..military..drunkeness, etc) will AT LEAST let a man go down on him. I think the same applies to racial preference…they will fall given the above.

    I think in other cultures they are filled with gay imagines of white men as well. But they have learned to appreciate diversity and many of those countries don’t have a history of racial bias against Asians, Blacks, and Latinos. North Americans refuse to realize the affects of what our past has on our present day preferences.

    Men who have only one preference have that based on their cultural experience and background. It is primarily a nature thing…and therefore it is mutable or can be changed…People change interests and preferences everyday based on their new experiences from Brussels sprouts to black men…trust me. Free your minds.

  71. Just a brief contribution to the discussion over racist attitudes towards Asian men in the area of sex: In the 1980s I attended a prestigious research university in northern California (it begins with an “S” ends with a “D” and is located in Palo Alto). One evening I went to a forum that was held on the topic of inter-racial dating. One of the things that really stuck in my head from that forum was a comment that was made by a female Asian student and repeated by several other Asian women. The comment was, “Asian women prefer not to date Asian men because Asian men are ‘wimps’.”

    What really stunned me about this comment was two things: First, as I mention above, the forum in question was held at a prestigious university, the male students at which – regardless of race – probably all thought of themselves as “wimps,” or at the very least, “nerds.” Second, the female Asian students who expressed these sentiments did not seem much to care that they hurt the feelings of their male counterparts at best, and at worst articulated virulently racist and demeaning ideas directed at their own race.

    Still, one has to grant to these women that they honestly expressed their preferences. These were highly educated women who apparently did not find much attraction in similarly highly educated Asian men. Rather, because of deeply engrained cultural and societal forces, they were sexually and romantically inclined towards men who they felt possessed more virile or manly qualities.

    In theory, these preferences can be unlearned, but in practice they are difficult to overcome in the course of a single generation.

  72. I think the whole issue about GAM/GWM dilemma has a lot to do with racism. White guys can be racist, so do oriental guys! I think oriental guys are the one who should ultimately responsible for this GAM/GWM dilemma

    Very surprising, no one on this site has ever though of “reverse racism”

    For example, white guys get preferential treatments in Asian countries. In China/Hong Kong/Japan and other Asian countries, local magazines (gay/straight) tend to put pictures of white guys symbolizing “high class” images. Theatres play Hollywood movies. People learn to speak English.

    English is a mandatory subject in high school! (Imagine if you are oriental who can speak English without any ascent, you can get a WOW effect in south Asian countries. People would generally look up at you!)

    Now, look at the North America. Magazines (especially the gay ones) are still full of pictures of white people. Movie theatres won’t ever play Chinese/Japanese movies. People won’t find it amazing if you can speak multi-language and of course, you don’t have to take any Asian language in high school

    So what the hell is this?
    Asian people think they are inferior?
    Apparently, they are!
    Don’t be too desperate and narrow minded.

    White guys don’t date Asian. OH NO, BIG DEAL!! Date Asian guys!!

    As the matter of fact, if you want to date anyone, first you need to feel completely comfortable of being yourself.

    Look at this website the whole site is covered by images of muscle white boys. So, the website owner wants to be a white guy??

    Don’t you think you are too desperate and eventually becoming upset because you aren’t getting what you want?

    In this world, most of the people DO NOT value things. When you have something, you don’t value it as much.

    But when you can’t get certain things, you want them badly. Imagine, we switch the whole story around. Asian guys ONLY date their own race, I bet you white guys would be the follower!!

    Be Smart, strong and don’t be ignorant.

  73. Actually, same race preference is understandable to me. I am a Chinese gay man, brought up in China as well, when I was living in Beijing from very young till to 28, I tended to ignore all other gay white men when I go too any gay bar or gay sauna too. I didn’t find gay white men were attractive at all. Having been living in the UK, I started to fancy some of the white guys, but very interestingly, I found many of the white guys I fancy always share some physical features of gay oriental guys, more or less…. And every time I come across a cute gay oriental man, I just can’t help checking him out. So, I believe same race preference is a still built in you from very young, you can’t change it easily.

  74. Your comments on “racism or preference” are interesting. As a GWM I definitely “prefer” GBM. In fact probably half of my experience is with GBMs or mixed-race guys. Your comments made me recall my old doubts as to whether this is “racism” or not. I haven’t been with a huge number of guys and my other experiences are mostly with GWMs and only one or two Latinos and GAMs, but those have been from India. In fact I have met very few non-Indian GAMs and never slept with one, but I think this is probably just chance.

    Or is it? I have been telling myself, as you pointed out, “it’s just preference, like some men prefer blonds or brunettes, or fem or masculine…” It is interesting to get another perspective, but I think you’ve got to be careful not to imagine, as we all tend to do, that everyone else is getting more sex than we are (which they probably aren’t) and ascribing this to some spurious reason. I HOPE racism is a spurious reason, but I am sure there are racist gays just as there are racist str8s and a racist refusal will REALLY sting. It will therefore be remembered bitterly and may shake confidence, making the victim wonder if EVERY refusal from a GWM is secretly racially motivated.

    Trouble is, from what you say about bath houses, getting to know someone before sex is not high on the list so appearances are going to be important – and one’s race is probably the thing that has most impact on your appearance, so in the bath house it will probably have a greater than normal impact.

  75. I have spent considerable time reading a few of your listings. I have bookmarked your page and wish to read the rest of what you have written, as what you have written is not only, well done, but also an eye opener for me; so I wish to be informed more.

    However…….and criticism,( I am sure is not below you ), I have got the slightest impression that in some things that you have written, have an impression on me as reverse racism against GWM and very much so against older men.
    However, I have yet to read the rest of your writings before I could sustain this immediate impression.

    In to-day’s world, has it it ever occurred to you, that the upbringing of kids desires such a lot of what is called “old fashioned” values towards society, fellow man whether gay or straight. Respect for each other has gone out of the door in the last 2o or even less years. The Asian family still seems to be able to engender in their offspring, values that have been lost in mostly Caucasian parentage.

    I live in a suburb that has found a home for so many Asian families, and sure this place has changed so much over the years. At first for me, there was resentment to see this place being taken over so quickly. In walking distance there are approx. 50 Asian restaurants and the only non Asian food is to be got at McDonalds, Hungry Jacks and KFC. Unfortunately, I only like Japanese food as opposed to Western food.
    I have become very comfortable with this. A lot of money has been injected into this area, house prices have soared etc. Sure there is things that upset me, like increased graffiti and petty crime. BUT……..when the perpetrators are caught, they usually are young Caucasian louts.

    I am also a practicing Christian, and our new Curate is Chinese. He is the most wonderful Priest and is very much loved by our Anglican congregation who are 95% Caucasian.
    Governmental policy can contribute to racism as observed in the UK where I used to live. Here, I don’t think that applies. I look forward to reading the rest of your listings.

  76. I was really intrigued by your writings!! I have a very similar experience at the baths here in Duluth…one of the last ones left in the state…I have seen the exact variety of guys you have seen and it’s just amazing that someone else has written about it. Now I’m inspired to do some of my own writing! Even though I don’t really go much anymore, I’m not sure if I just grew out of it or what, it’s an interesting world.

    One thing you need to understand is this: EVERY gay man is fighting his own battles. I’m not Asian, but I am gay, and I can’t find anyone EITHER! We need to stop arguing about who’s pain is worse and look at our commonalities rather than this foolishness. I’m just as angry as you are that I can’t meet anyone…but I don’t believe that race has as much to do with is as age, money, location, and profession. Unfortunately for gay men, the bar has been raised very high compared to the rest of society: we must be sex objects as well as success objects. You must have a degree. You must have money. You must be in good shape. You must have accomplished a lot, and look like you’ve got money. The general population is not held by these expectations. But we are – yet look at how many of us quit high school, battled drugs, loneliness, etc. – after going through all this shit – how can we be expected to come out, and be ahead of everyone else who grew up “normally”?

    We are the ones who perpetuate this bullshit. Is racism a problem? Maybe But I see a lot of white guys interested in Latinos who are turned down because the Latino men only want each other. It’s ridiculous. We only make up, at best, 4-5% of the population. With numbers this low, how can we afford to be this discriminatory? I don’t even know straight people who are this unrealistic.

    No WONDER none of us seem to be able to find relationships. We survive as a group of grown men conducting our lives with high school emotions.

  77. Reading halfway through your stories, not a single time or occasion you ever mentioned having a sexual encounter with any races other than white men in the tubs. I agree with some parts of your stories about some Asian men ignoring any races other than white men. I am afraid the way you describe those potato queens is exactly the way you describe yourself.

    Any form of addiction is bad. I think it is really sad to hear stories about someone as attractive as you being addicted to sleazy place like the tubs and living a life with one constant aim of getting laid by white men under 40.

    The fact is that there are white men who only like white men, especially those white men who have little or totally zero exposure to the world out there; they tend to have negative stereotypes about Asian men. I myself am GAM, attached to a good looking and tall GAM doctor and we have some Caucasian friends and they are really good people.

    Point is stopping the prejudice about racism.

  78. I agree with your story. I’m a 24 y/o Latino (who happens to also love Latinos, mostly.) If I had a choice it would be with another Latino and I don’t know why.

    Regarding your story, my surprise is that the situation of whites that prefer whites is nothing new. If you think about it, it has been like that almost forever. Both my sister’s married white guys and we (my brothers in law and me) can not stand each other. We are nice and polite but never too close like to go out or have a beer together. I believe that white guys are also victims of the mass media you talk about as much as other minorities… just think about it… Jesus is white with blue eyes… Buddha and Muhammad are not…

  79. I just read “Racism or Preference”. I’d just like to note that I’m a GWM who likes Asian guys, but I definitely wouldn’t call myself a rice queen! Honestly it’s probably just my exposure to Asian guys, as I used to live in Asia. But regardless, I like both white and Asian guys with no preference to either one.

  80. You’re right about the GWM/GAM thing. I am White, but, while not necessarily a rice queen, find Asian men really attractive. I have been in a relationship for 15 years now with a Filipino man, and am just now 33.

    So, as we are monogamous, I have taken to being the voyeur, not ever at a bathhouse, but everywhere I go, I spy handsome Asians, and I watch their body language, mannerisms, and speech patterns. It can be a much insulated group in the general culture (by that I mean white). Most non-whites are not represented proportionately in American culture. I for one am so glad to have found your site – it makes me realize something deep within myself. And you deserve the right to speak with conviction and passion about your experiences.

    I now consider myself more educated about the world of casual sex, and human relations. Thanks for all your time and hard work.

  81. Hey, I read you’re blog on racism. You write really well and you make a lot of good points. But there are some things that aren’t so true…I mean not all GWMs are like that. I’m 21 Y/O GAM and I went to my first bath house this summer in Vegas, then one in dc and yea just like anywhere else I cruise, a lot white guys don’t give me a second look…and I do the same. I automatically am not interested in guys who aren’t interested in me either. But I still hooked up or got the interest of half the bathhouse…a lot of people, white, invited me to their rooms. I used to think, especially here in Richmond, that being Asian sucked because like no gay guys are ever interested.

    But recently I changed my attitude because of just visiting other places, and that’s really worked out well because it seems that a lot of guys are interested…I just never thought they were before so I never approached them. So what I’m trying to say I guess is its not always just one sided, the not approaching. Maybe you display a defensive attitude that has people not approaching you either?

  82. I came across your diary website today and have been reading your stories with great interest. As a GWM, I have to agree with most of your assessments about “us” as well as your perspectives about GAMs. I want to finish reading the rest of your stories later and, if you are perhaps willing, share some perspectives of my own

  83. Just a comment on your Racism/preference story– I may be an exception to your views of GWM and GAM. I have always had a high regard for GAM even though I am a GWM, when I was younger and still now that I am in my late 40’s. Perhaps what you said is ture to some extent, but don’t sell the GAM short. Maybe I’m the exception, in that I look at the person and not the race/color/creed.

  84. I have read most of the stories on your site and tried to refrain myself from writing to you, but this time I just have to let it out:


    You have so much assumption based on nothing but your pathetic and distorted view of the world.

    e.g.: “I don’t think I have ever seen a GAM at the baths refuse to blow anybody, even if that person is seventy! No wonder why so many gay elderly men take a shine to Asians! ” Personally I would never blow someone who is in their 70’s and I know Gay Asian tops who simply don’t like to suck dick; “I truly believe that a lot of white guys at the baths look at Asians as the ultimate ‘back-up”

    Sweetie, no one can make you a back-up unless you let them.

    I can go on with this forever but I am sure intelligent readers would know what I am talking about. True, it is VERY hard to be Asian and gay. Why do I know? Because I used to be one bitter GAM too. But it is not going to help to dwell on your own sadness and intensify it by negative viewpoint based on NOTHING. I have felt the way you do before, and reading it just makes me realize how UTTERLY UNATTRACTIVE it is.

    No one is going to like you if you look like you have the words “pissed and bitter” carved on your forehead. You don’t need to be validated (as you often put it) by ANYBODY, whether GW/B/L/M, your parents or your best friends in order to have self-esteem. We say self-esteem because it really has to come from oneself. Maybe you need to get out of the bath more, do other stuff. Make peace with who you are, know what you believe in, and love yourself for it. You will be surprised by the kind of wonderful people (who were always repelled by you before) attracted to you as you slowly gain some self-esteem.

    Having all that said I am also very happy to say personally I have taken a departure from what I used to be: I see it in you! “Poor me! Look at me! Sympathize me me!” And be able to laugh at you and say again “STOP IT ALREADY!!!” But then that’s my stories.
    And to my fellow readers, please do not mistake his point of view as the general opinion of ALL GAMs. Some of us are actually doing OK.

  85. I do take offence, as a GWM, to having the choice between being a rice queen (a highly offensive term in my mind), or a racist. Frankly, I am attracted to who I am, some are white guys, some are Asian guys, some are Latin guys, and some are Black guys. I’m young, and I will date who I will.

    Other than that rant, I am thoroughly impressed with your Website.

  86. There’s some great insight on this website – my comment is this: I think that sexual racism is becoming less of an issue with younger gay men (do others feel the same way?). I’m a 26 y/o white boy, who’s not hard on the eye! I’ve had one white boyfriend, one black boyfriend, one Latin boyfriend in my ten years of being a gay boy – and recently a two year relationship with a Vietnamese guy who was 10 years my senior. Hope that breaks a stereo-type for you – here’s one white boy who sees people before race!

    Also a white boy who was totally into an older Asian guy (well until it ended that is). Yes, we are few and far between – but my gut feeling is that next generation of gay men on the scene are slowly letting go of their sexual racism. The other comment I’d like to make is that you ought not to group all white men in the same basket 😉 – just as Thai is not Chinese and Mexican is not Brazilian. Australians are not Americans are not Europeans…..

  87. As I’m 27 and no Rice Queen (never been with a GAM before), maybe I’ll be the first one (?).

    I’m a French GWM and I met a Thai GAM in a bathhouse 2 months ago.

    According to your experience :
    I would not even have seen him (when he approaches me I couldn’t see anything but his smile),
    he would be twenty years younger than me (he’s two months older),
    he would be a bottom (he is a top),
    and we would never have seen again (we left the bathhouse together… and we’re still together).

    So please, doctor, tell me: are we really weirdo’s? 😉

    The funniest thing being probably that I can’t really understand why he find me so exceptionally attractive (I’m good looking, but no GQ model), and vice versa (he can’t realize that he is really really gorgeous).

    So don’t worry too much about those race questions: the only sure thing you know about Mr Right before you meet him for good… is that he probably won’t be Martian.

    Good luck to you

  88. On the whole racism thing, I have another view, which I don’t see mentioned in your stories.

    I often see young cute Asian men with a really old or really fat guy in the sauna. Simply because I have seen them with the monster-being, I would then not be turned on by that cute Asian any more if I saw him again later alone. When I repeatedly see young Asians with monster-GWMs I tend to get to the point of not wanting any of them although this is usually temporary.

    This is often found to be unkind to the monster-GWMs and described as illogical. In fact I think there is some inherent logic in the feeling since sexual contact involves some degree of sharing (diseases etc) with all previous partners.

    In any case it’s a feeling I have frequently and after several years of living in an Asian country, I now look for a non-Asian as I think there’s more of a chance of the LTR I would like. Whilst content with an open relationship I would not be happy with my partner going off chasing the fat, old and ugly.

    I have sex with all races and always have since I was in my 20s. My preference is for darker types – eyes, hair but skin color is not so important. It’s much easier to find young cute guys who are Asian but the behavior of many in their group puts me off and right now I am making a conscious effort to avoid.

    I guess my point is that you put all this behavior down to unjustified racism. I suggest it isn’t always the case. I’m sure there are many who would insist on a silly PC notion that all forms are unjustified and unacceptable. If a certain group behaves in a certain way I think it’s acceptable to react to that expected-usual behavior perhaps with the proviso that you will allow for the fact there are exceptions in any group.

  89. You write some interesting articles. I am actually facilitating a gay youth group about this very topic. Even though I am a GWM I find the sexual politics of gay men and race very interesting. It will be interesting to see if the Asians in the group agree with your point of view and whether they are only attracted to white men as opposed to other Asians. The evidence that gay Asians tend not to be attracted to their own race puzzles me.

  90. I am a GWM 34 living in Japan. I have been living in Japan for the last 10 years. You make a lot of good points and I really hate sexual racism, like you. However, believe it or not, white guys in JAPAN understand what you Asian guys in the West are going through. Trust me. I have to say that I am a very good looking white guy with a great body. When I am in the West, there are no shortage of really young (early 20’s) white guys that will have sex with me –Oz, NZ, Europe, USA, Canada, Etc. I have just as good luck with Asian guys in the West and in Asia. In SIN, TWN, and THLD, I am mobbed. But in Japan, where they often put signs on the doors of saunas that say in English (Japanese Men Only) it is pretty hard going.

    When I approach Japanese guys that are in my league body wise, many will simply grunt “Gaijin Dame” (basically, “Foreigner –NO GOOD!). I cannot tell you how often that happens. I always have to remind myself not to take it personally — that they are just judging me by my race. But when I think that in six hours in a sauna I can’t get laid once in Japan and in the same time in Montreal or Bangkok I would have been laid several times with some cute hotties of all races — it gets frustrating. Nonetheless, I am a glutton for punishment — been here 10 years. Just want to let your Asian readers know that they should NOT assume because someone is young and good looking and white that they would not be interested. SO OFTEN (since I was 20) I have approached an Asian hottie to be informed that they were interested but afraid to make the first move because they ASSUMED I only liked white guys. Young good looking guys who appreciate young good looking Asian guys DO EXIST. Give us a chance!!

  91. Sorry to hear that it can be such a problem to hook up with non-Asian men (especially Caucasians). But as a Caucasian in NC, I can tell you that outside of major cities like SF, LA, and NYC it is equally difficult for Caucasians to meet Asian guys because the Asian population is so small.

    Quite contrary to your experience, however, I have an Asian acquaintance in DC who gets *lots* of interest from Caucasians, and he is not the stereotypical Asian you portray, nor are those Caucasians that are interested in him “fat old guys”. (I’m not one either, BTW).

    Personally, I expect that as Caucasians in America are increasingly exposed to Asians and Asian culture, so will the sexual interest in Asians among Caucasians increase. It may never be as high as you perceive the interest of Asians is in Caucasians, but does it really need to be?

    There are a lot of good-looking Caucasians in the US equally frustrated by lack of Asians in other parts of the US. The current 15-20% interest in Asians by Caucasians in the US may seem very low to you, but I’d love to live in an area where 15-20% of the gay population was gay Asians interested in Caucasians.

    Incidentally, one big difference I’ve noticed between Asians and Caucasians here is that Asians will very rarely “advertise” (i.e. personals, etc) compared with Caucasians. That’s not a criticism. After all, many Caucasians (myself included) prefer not to do so. But Asians who don’t will never meet Caucasians who don’t, either.

    Seems like the best way to know how much real interest is out there is to get out there, yourself (beyond just the bathhouses). This web site is probably helpful in that regard.

  92. I enjoyed reading your entries. I visited the baths a few times in the late 80s and early 90s, each time with varying degrees of success. My first experience was in a European bathhouse while I was in the military. I was shocked and delighted.

    I wanted to tell you that if I had given you my “ideal” man 10 years ago it would have been a description of what we now call an “A&F guy”. However, I’ve spent the last 10 years with an Asian guy I met on a phone chat line. Go figure. He wasn’t that type at all, but we first got to know each other on the phone and only after talking for a couple of months did we actually meet. I didn’t know he was Asian until I walked into the restaurant we had agreed to meet at.

    Since we were already “friends”, we started dating. Our love grew and we moved in with each other about a year after we met. We just celebrated our tenth anniversary.

    Racism, and particularly sexual racism, starts with perceived difference. I don’t know that you can change the world because it really does require an individual to have a different outlook. And something has to exist before a different outlook can be adopted: a new attitude, a new situation, an unfamiliar (and therefore not per-judged) environment.

    All I can tell you is that I love my Asian partner. I love him for all of the reasons you listed in one of your essays — he’s very loyal and giving, he’s got an incredibly hot body, he’s polite, and he loves me. I didn’t “pick” him because I thought he would be submissive — in fact, he still refuses to bottom for me. I didn’t “pick” him because I thought I could take advantage of his desperateness (although I doubt he was desperate, I think you make a good point.)

    Just for the record, we’re the same age and I had never dated or even had sex with an Asian before I met him. And, if I saw your friend with the hot body — the guy whose picture you displayed in a couple of essays — I would immediately think he was hot and I would probably go after him if I ran into him at a bathhouse (assuming I was single, anyway).

    It’s sad that sexual racism exists, but it’s also sad that you haven’t met any guys like me — I think there’s more of us than you realize.

  93. I must congratulate you on your wonderful page.This is the very first time I have come across an article of such conviction. This topic is very close to my heart-the topic of GAMs desiring GWMs as a player would desire a trophy. At least you live in a big city. I live in a small city(student)and have the misfortune of coming across chat rooms full of white guys who don’t want to have much to do with an Indian guy.

    In any case, I have been here only for 2 years but I did take it personally and since then have refused to date any white guys. I genuinely like only Asian guys. Now u might call it retro-racism.

    This will be my 2nd visit to BKK since that place looks at me as one of their own. Of course, there are a lot of GAMs desiring GWMs there too but there are enough to take care of me too.

    As of now, rather than sit here, I am using this formula.BKK is full of old fat GWMs in the company of really young GAMs-something that makes my blood boil. I pity those GAMs for their lack of self-esteem.

    Once again congratulations for stating the obvious but highly relevant issue of racism in gay community.

  94. I read quite a few of your essays over the past few months and found them to be interesting and thought provoking. I do not necessarily agree with everything, and hope things are not really as bad as you portray. I know there will always be bigots (I do live in the South) and there will also be those who feel they are victims, there is not much I can do about either.

    I have had LTR with both an older GWM and a younger GAM. I do like Asian guys a lot, but certainly would not ignore a good looking guy of another race. I’m not sure what that makes me (a fun loving guy?). Anyway, I’ll keep reading. Hope you find what you are looking for. Oh, and if you want to refer me to any nice bathhouses where I can find a nice middle age GAM… just let me know 🙂

  95. I enjoyed your stories. Being a gwm who likes gam I am somewhat distressed to think you find all gwm just “use” gam for sex. I have dated some gam guys who made more money, dressed better, etc than I. They were educated articulate and aggressive. Not the pandering type you describe. You are correct, being gay is tough period. But you must not think all your fellow asian guys are flawed for dating gwm. Self esteem—well, one thing I pick up over and over is you suffer from low self esteem as well. My point, it a gam younger really loves a gwm, so what! I don’t think saying gwm who like gam is fetish. I find gam more fun, more open minded, more intellectual, more into sex, much more mature than their gwm counterparts. Now if that is a fetish, well, it is a good fetish vs dating young gwm who are immature, dumb, no class etc!!

  96. I’ve read a few of your article online and found them interesting and insightful. But I want to encourage you to not give up hope. I happen to be a 33 year-old BiWM who is dating a GAM and living in the mid-west. We are both the same age and are happy together. I don’t see him as a “back up” and I don’t consider myself a rice queen. I have dated people of different backgrounds including white, black, & Asian. Maybe not all Gay white men are attracted to Asians, but try not to take it personally or be hurt by it. It’s a reflection on them more than on you or other Asians. Being a white male doesn’t mean you have it all together.

    I’m not saying that Asians should hold out hope for finding a Gay White Boyfriend, only that you should hold out hope for finding someone who will truly care for you. Regardless of what race that is. In the end, that’s what we all want someone to connect with that understands us without compromising ourselves. I feel lucky to have my BF and fortunate that we do not let preconceived stereotypes stand in our way. (Neither the Bisexual stereotype nor the Asian stereotype)

  97. Your take makes me very sad. I always loved all minorities, and regretted I got to meet so few Asians. They are cute, sweet and very sexy. According to you, we’re damned rice queens if we do and damned racists if we don’t. I’m old now, but wish I was young again and knew that place that has so many frustrated Asian guys!

  98. I thought this would be an email and not another commercial, but never the less I was moved by the depth of your pain from your experiences of rejection, discrimination, and self esteem issues associated with gay bath attendance. The insights provided by therapy begin to deal with that pain, but the words of a Tibetan Buddhist teacher, Kalu Rinpoche, come to mind. When asked to comment on giving or receiving a good blowjob he responded, “Sentient beings in samsara will be sentient beings in samsara.”

    He had nothing against blowjobs, only our attachment and preoccupation. It is not easy to achieve or expect growth in a place dedicated to the single-minded gratification of every desire. Folks tend to shrink to the limits of their pleasure, their desires, their own narrow limits and beliefs, in short the opposite of growth beyond our infant selves. All spiritual traditions address this, but eastern “wisdom” has had a three thousand year head start. Its essence is nonjudgmental, non-prejudicial, non-aggressive, non-dual, and without limits. This white boy who has never had an Asian partner stands in awe.

  99. When I was young and attractive I had no opportunities with GAMS. But when I was 40 and still attractive I met a young Thai and fell in love with Asians. Now I am old and fat but how do you deny ones still attraction to young GAMS. Remember no one escapes age so please be kind for someday you will be there with all of its frustrations. I recently had an affair with a young Chinese guy it was heaven but he thought I was too old. A couple of comments: A lot of white guys think Asians have small dicks. (Not true of course). Then they also may think that Asians are too clannish. Most American white guys are cut and many have a prejudice against uncut. (Don’t know what they are missing). Most Asians are uncut and that may be a turnoff for some. All of you GAMS get out there and teach those dummies about good Asian love. Cope

  100. I’m a white guy, but I LOVE to caress, lick, suck, fuck, and otherwise enjoy the company of sexy Asians. I don’t care whether he is white, brown, Latin, Asian or whatever, as long as he has something going on I’m all for it.

    Maybe I am in the minority, but that’s the way humanity has been forever, so no sense killing yourself over it. It’s a fact of life.

    Look for the good ones and forget the rest.

  101. Your page is very honest heartfelt and interesting.

    I want to tell you my story hope you take the time and that it doesn’t bore you stupid.

    From early teens I knew I was gay and had high self-esteem obviously I was a part of the majority and volunteer surf lifesaver interest from men just validated my existence. In Sydney I dated men from many ethnic backgrounds for many years I just followed my cock. My friends joked about it “Jamie only dates men that can speak two languages” or “if you want Jamie show him your visa stamp” all the time my friends tried to match make me with a white guy some very cute and nice some not. At that stage in my live I couldn’t see my self with a long-term lover.

    I not trying to say I’m great looking (even though I earn a good living from my face and body acting dancing modeling) I always thought my character was my strongest asset.

    Anyway that is beside the point this is what I want to share. I was conditioned to find Asian men unattractive until one night.

    I was at a gay pub in Sydney I noticed an Asian man next to me at the bar with a square handsome face and a lean built hot body and you know I remember thinking “what does he eat and what is his gym routine” I know how Sydney gay boy is that anyway at the time I didn’t give him a second thought some old guy was chatting with (or rather to) him.

    Then I heard him speak. He said to the old guy “I’m not your yellow taxi fuck off” And then other stuff I’m a language I didn’t know.

    At that moment he had me and I really looked at him he noticed I said something like “good on ya can I buy you a drink”

    That night we chatted laughed he was/is so sassy even then I was talking to him unattractive guys were hitting on him and he was like “look in that mirror behind the bar now look at him (me) go figure bye bye)” he asked me to put my arm around him because “I’m tired of being a bitch” I had really wanted to long before he asked.

    Anyway we dated the sex was amazing fluid hot tender and rough forget about top or bottom we wanted to experience it all with each other. His touch, skin, smell and taste drove me insane. I really believe that wasn’t and Asian fetish thing but a falling in love thing but you can decide for your self.

    Anyway over time I lost a lot of so called friends because I was dating and Asian guy well fuck em. The choice was a friend or a man I was in love with…dah!

    Over the next 2 years we shared a home etc he was getting very home sick so I applied for a visa to Japan and we sold everything and left.

    For whatever reason we broke up a year later I’m still in Japan because a got a great job doing what I love.

    Being single in Tokyo is tough. Your gwm and gam story you could easily change gam to gwm and gwm to gjm (gay Japanese man)

    I know hard to believe but I believe it I mean there are signs on some gay bars and bath houses that say “Japanese only” as a white man I often not aloud in I can clear a cruising space just by entering even people on the train will get up and stand rather then sit next to me.

    But that is Japan a place were people are genuinely shocked to hear a non Japanese person speaking Japanese or being able to use chopsticks but there are potato queens here too but the word is gaisen they mainly just scare me off.

    I mean after a month or so of feeling invisible (not just in the gay community) except of work colleges and mama san at the local shop on my street. I will find my self surrounded but 5 Japanese men all competing for me and really I just think “who am I do you know”

    Anyway the point is that I have only had 2 years as a single gay man living in a place where I’m not considered attractive or fuckable or sometimes even human.

    I know that I have just experienced a tiny amount of what you experience everyday it’s not even worth considering. All I really want to say is hang in there even though most gwm can’t imagine sleeping with or loving a gam and gam may all seem to want any gwm, try to leave a small space perhaps 2%. For men that will just want someone like you I mean the way you look think and act whether he is gam gwm gbm etc etc etc

    Oh.. and let your voice be heard it will piss alot of people off but someone out there needs your word young Asian men and the rest so maybe they will think on it

    In the mean time I’ll just follow my cock again maybe it will lead me to enough love of my life

  102. I’m White with an Asian boyfriend who I like cause I’m attracted to HIM, not his race. It seems that if I like Asian men I’m a fetishist and if I don’t I’m a racist. You have a great blog but stop feeling sorry for yourself and other Asian men. Grow up!

  103. This is in reference to all the posts regarding ASIANS AND WHITES. Someone said Asians are feminine, some said Asians are after whites, some even said its a fetish, one guy said even Asians hate Asians.

    May I ask do you guys know what you’re talking about, do you have any idea. I come from India and guys in India are as masculine as anywhere else in the world. They are not after whites and they do love other Indians, not many guys there will be after race or skin colour but they try and look in your heart, don’t believe me go and look for yourself. Don’t make an image of Asia from Thailand or other such countries, the problem in Thailand is not Thai guys but old fat rice queens who made the things like this.

    It so great to see that Asian man to react to these articles and they talk. I wish all the Asians and Caucasians a very warm life full of love.

    We are in 2003 now, you are talking about racism, shame on you guys. You want to know what it is like to be an Asian. I tell you I have had friends from Asia and around the world and all around my age, I have been with white guys aged 20-30 who love Asian man. Maybe those who are annoyed are not because they don’t like Asians but they can’t get

    Or did any Asian rejected you !!!

  104. Hi: Reading some of your stories. Enjoy them, have many to read yet…I am American, have lived/worked in Asian countries since 1967. I was attracted to Asian guys early in life, and wanted to be where I could be with them, so live in Asia. I come from small town in PA. Nearest bathhouse in Pittsburgh 2 hours away. Never went. I don’t think I am superior to Asians. When I go to the sauna here, say 50 men are there, maybe of the 50 there are 3 foreigners (whites)..The Koreans do not swarm to me…I find they (95%) like there own kind, for reasons I don’t really understand…but when one that is attracted to me and I to him comes along, I feel good, that someone wants to be with me, even if only for a short period, then goodbye. I have little experience in stateside bars or sauna’s.

    I did go often in Hawaii every time I passed thru, until 1985 when the aids news became widespread…I never did the anal things much, was always scared. always careful since then. Anyway, when I return to the USA to finally stay. I hope I am fortunate to find a few Asian guys who might find me attractive and want me to touch them.

    Being old (regardless of race/colour) is not going to be pretty….so if an Asian would like to be with me, for whatever his reasons might be, I would feel that at least someone wants me.

    I probably am not expressing myself well, I am not a writer. I just am giving a few thoughts to you. I never knew there was a large amount of Asian guys whom actually prefer GWM…I myself have never been attracted to GWM’s except for my first experience which lasted 1 year. Funny, I was in Vietnam working at that time with Asians all around me…suppose that is why I became to like Asians so much. For me, it is not that I am attractive to most Asian guys, I am not.

    I get rejected more than I care to mention…Well, I guess that is enough. I shall read more of your stories. I can only relate to my life of living in Asia, where I am comfortable and can sometimes find someone who would like to be with me.

    Well, your stories are interesting and well written. I better stop…Thanks for your time…Charles

  105. Regarding the pseudo-scientific musings a few pages back, it really amazes me that there are still white people out there so stupid that they would actually take the time to think this drool up.Am I supposed to take this as an example of the statistically inferior intelligence of Caucasian people? What makes it beyond pathetic is that someone who thought it up is a sadly deluded, genetically useless, behaviorally aberrant homosexual. Apparently it has never occurred to him what that “scientifically” means.

  106. I am a 25 years old GAM. I read about your racism experience. Here is my personal experience. As far as racism, I had only been rejected once by an Iceland guy, that’s about it. I had slept with people that is as old as 49 and as young as 18. They are white. I had dated CK model while I lived in NYC. My personal experience is when you are in a big cities like NYC, or DC, people tends to care less about races. One thing I found about Asians in the States are they don’t like each other. Oh, well, I am trying to make a point but I don’t think I did.

  107. I found your articles very interesting. I’m knew to the gay scene, so a lot of this stuff is new to me. I fall into that 5% I guess. I am attracted to Asian males. I noticed too that they were attracted to me. After reading your articles I realized what you said is true. I did notice that this happens a lot, Asians gay men desiring to be with white gay men regardless of age. I see personal ads all the time of Asians from abroad seeking white males as a companion so that they can leave their country for a better opportunity. Most didn’t care about age at all. It really bothers me to see this happening.

  108. I must say I was quite surprised by all the racism you’ve found. I myself have been blessed (cursed?) with good looks and a pretty good body. I’m 54 but look about 40. None of the boyfriends or lovers I ever had in my life have been magazine covers, but they have been beautiful to me. My only requirement has been that a man be height/weight proportionate. Race, ethnicity, or physical challenge have never been an issue for me. Real beauty comes from within. I’ve tried the baths a few times in my life, but they’re just not for me. I have a dear friend that I’ve known for about 20 years. We live quite far apart, but manage to get together at least twice a year…and it’s definitely worth the wait. Until another good friend comes my way, I have a vivid imagination and a good left hand.

  109. It’s a very interesting website. Particularly interesting the story where you mention about GAM-GWM racism. I happen to be a Mediterranean GWM 24yo and although I am quite picky about the guys I fancy, I don’t mind whether they’re black, Latinos or Europeans. But I admit, if I had to choose between a hot Asian and a hot GWM, I’d choose the Asian. I don’t know if that makes me a rice queen, to be honest I don’t care what others may think. I don’t like all Asian guys, just those few who are my type, same as with GWM. I do love Asian eyes and their smooth skin. And am not really into the skinny submissive fem stereotype (although fem can be sexy sometimes ;-), even myself am active.

    So far I haven’t been to bathhouse, but since I got to London I noticed that there’s only a couple of (gay) bars or clubs where I can also see Asians, apart from other races. They seem to stick together at one or two places. When I asked an Asian guy whether it is because they like it, he said ‘we actually hate those places, but whenever we tried going somewhere else, we were laughed off or even verbally attacked’. I find this bit hard to believe, but then again, it might be true.

    I went to those ‘Asian’ places a couple times. The first time I was shocked to find out I was probably the only Caucasian younger than 35 or so, if not more. There nothing wrong with younger guys being into guys in there 30s. I find guys in the 30s can be real sexy n fit (Asian too!) But it made me sad to watch all those 60yo guys sweating, trying to dance at Kylie’s songs with their MUCH younger Asian partners. Next to them, a small team of late 20’s-early 30’s real good-looking Asian guys that seem to stick with themselves. I didn’t even try to talk to them, for some reason I had a feeling I’d be rejected immediately. 🙂

    I hope that as time passes Asian guys will realize that there’s nothing special about GWM, that their own race can be just as attractive, and developing reverse racism (against all GWM) is just as pointless. Just go out and get the young guy you fancy, Asian or not 😉

  110. While it is true that Asian guys tend to be shorter and of slighter frame, I don’t think that this explains why most guys aren’t attracted to Asian guys.

    Dating works like a market. Each of us has a certain amount of “mate value” that we can exchange in return for certain traits that we want in a partner. While most of us would like to find someone that is stunningly attractive, smart, kind, funny, talented, etc., the fact of the matter is that few of us are able to get everything that we want in a partner. So we make trade-offs. Sometimes, we’ll sacrifice few IQ points in exchange for a pretty smile, or we forgive those few extra pounds on our partner because he is kind and devoted. You get the idea.

    For many people, two extremely salient characteristics in their potential partners are race and age. All other things being equal, most gay guys prefer someone that is young and white. But because not all of us can get everything that we want, we made trade-offs. That’s why you often see younger Asian guys with older white guys. The Asian guys trade race for age; the white guys trade age for race.

    But there’s an important caveat in the “economic model” of dating: the issue of necessities versus luxuries. There are some traits that we deem so important in a partner that we are unwilling to compromise on them. They are what we consider necessities. Being a male, for example, is a necessity that gay men require in their partners. It doesn’t matter how smart or funny or talented a woman is, she’s still a female—and no amount of extras (i.e. luxuries) will make up for that. Similarly, for many gay men, a particular race (or particular races), is a necessity in their partners. At least where I’m located, that’s almost always white or Hispanic. So, if you’re Asian, for example, it doesn’t matter how many ‘extras’ or ‘luxuries’ you can bring to the table, because you don’t meet the original, ‘first-pass’ requirements.

    And where else is race conveyed but the face? Body type is only marginally linked to race. Your accuracy for judging race is near 100% based on faces; I would suspect that it would be much, much lower if you were only looking at bodies. I think that race, as conveyed through facial features, is a necessity for most gay men, while body type is a luxury. That’s why the uber-buff Asian guy, who works out so hard to have a ‘white porn star’s body,’ will still have a very difficult time competing on the dating market. He doesn’t meet the ‘first-pass’ filter. Race rules him out right away.

    Of course, this doesn’t really address why race is salient or why certain facial features are preferred in the first place. Judgments of attractiveness are not arbitrary. In fact, there is a wealthy of literature showing that people are remarkably similar in their judgments of attractiveness. Facial and bodily symmetry, for example, is a universally liked trait. It turns out that this spans the animal kingdom, and animals with greater symmetry enjoy greater mating success. Why does this matter? Because it turns out that symmetry is a signal of good genes and protection from developmental perturbations. There is a biological reason why we prefer what we prefer.

    The same applies to facial attractiveness. The face contains a host of testosterone markers. Why do people like guys with lantern jaws and strong brows? Because they are loaded with testosterone receptors. Sexual differentiation occurs mostly in the womb, under the influence of prenatal hormones and mediated by a person’s genetic makeup. Testosterone also makes the middle of the face grow forward. Put simply, Asian guys’ faces are less masculine than white guys’ faces. What’s more, the vast majority of gay men prefer masculinity in their partners, particularly with respect to physical appearance. But I don’t think this preference is arbitrary or cultural, and it’s certainly not limited to only gay men. Straight Asian guys also lament that they can’t get much action, because a lot of Asian girls are winding up with white guys. Likewise, I have heard (admittedly anecdotal) stories about how gay white guys in Asia mop up in terms of romantic success. But the gay men there have been exposed to other Asian guys all their life, so you can’t say that it’s because they’ve been inculcated by the media to accept a ‘eurocentric’ view of beauty. At the very least, why don’t Asian men in America enjoy the same romantic success that white guys in Asia do? And why don’t gay Asian guys in America prefer other Asian guys, if cultural factors are assumed to be all-important?

    I know that I’ve oversimplified some issues for the sake of brevity. I also recognize that the ideas I’ve put forth are very controversial. I’m basically suggesting that Asian guys are objectively less attractive than white guys. But I think this hypothesis has greater explanatory power than all the other competing hypotheses.

    I have no doubt that if you are racist, for example, you will discriminate across many domains, including dating and sex. But the reverse does not hold true, that if you don’t like Asian guys, then you are a racist. I suspect the racism hypothesis accounts for very little of the variance, as they say in statistics. Most gay guys who express a preference for white guys (or whatever) are not racist. You may say that they are subconsciously racist, but that’s armchair theorizing for which there is no data, and it doesn’t fit with the other pieces of the puzzle. Presumably, Asian guys would be the least likely to discriminate against other Asian guys, and yet they show the same preferences that the rest of the gay community does. I don’t buy the internalized racism argument either. There’s no convincing evidence for it. And why don’t other minorities experience the internalized racism phenomenon? There are far more Hispanic guys hooking up with one another than Asian guys hooking up with one another. The racism hypothesis just doesn’t fit the puzzle.

    I’ve got lots more to say about these issues (like why it is that some men, albeit a minority, are attracted to Asian guys, why black guys are also not preferred, etc.) and other caveats to make. But I’m tired of typing. Email me back if you want to discuss.

    1. Just because you can hide your racism by using 20-dollar words doesn’t change anything. You are a fucking racist bigot and full of bullshit. Why are you on this site if you think Asian people are the ugly race that you think it is. Go to a white rules website or some shit like that. White supremacy doesn’t belong here you white trash asshole.

  111. As a gay white male who dates exclusively Asian men, I am surprised that you and others think white men are prejudiced by you. Obviously, we have never met. If other white guys are biased against, so be it. There are more Asian men for me to date.

  112. I hope you are in the best of health. Firstly I would like to thank you for writing this article. Keep writing them and hopefully it will transpire others to share with you similar thoughts:-)

    My name is Zaki and I am from Singapore. A friend of mine forward me your article. I must say I find the premise of your contents illuminating and yet so familiar. Issues such as ageism and racism are very stark in gay community. It is sad but its reality. Reading your article, I can relate in a way that in Singapore GWM is being worshipped by the local GAM; irregardless how they look. As long as you are white, no matter how old or ugly, the moment they saunter in a club, all this GAM will be slinking towards them like leeches. On one hand I find it amusing but yet on the other hand, I feel sad for these GAM. Its as if they think that these GWM has more qualities than their local peers. Hooking up with GWM is like a triumph for them. Pleassee!

    Personally I am not attracted to GWM at all. And I don’t take no shit about all this white man superiority. I think we Asians should take pride on being who we are; our rich diverse cultures. Why are we still in this pre colonialist mode? By behaving this way, we are not much different from our forefathers which were colonized by the all these western powers. In fact we are empowering these GWM in reinforcing all these stereotypes of Asians even deeper. Until we learn to respect ourselves, nobody will.

    All I can say is that I am proud being an Asian (Chinese-Malay parentage). Its who I am. I am no submissive docile GAM who will know tow to a white guy simply because of his colour. What I think we need to do is to change our mindsets! Learn to be more assertive with ourselves and others.

  113. I find your comments as to why a GAM is only attracted to GWMs a gross generalization and somewhat offensive. Being GAM, I grew up in an Asian country but have lived in Europe and Australia for more years than Asia. My attraction to GWMs is purely physical. Socially, I get along with all races, but for long as I can remember, my sexual fantasy has always been with GWMs. To me, being attracted to GWMs only is like being born gay, I cannot explain why, but only know I am. May be because I’ve always liked the slightly older, husky, muscular, Marlboro-man type – I don’t see many GAM that sort of fits that criteria!

  114. I am an Asian and I never went home with empty hands every time I visit bath house.I prefer other Asians but won’t say no to any attractive guys in different races. Maybe it’s Los Angeles. And I met lots of White guys crazy about Asian only. Your wrote great stories but I just can’t agree on your point of racism.

  115. I’m a GAM myself and can identify with a lot of what your saying. I’ve had my share of bathhouse sex – and have generally enjoyed it. I can honestly say I never felt guilty about having quickie sex – and I don’t even mind the trolls that drool over me. One day I will be one of them I’m sure. I’d let one suck me every time I went – of course I wouldn’t let just anybody do me – but it seems like the right thing to do sometimes.

  116. Just stumbled on your essay page as I have been surfing the net due to a cold have only had a chance to read a few of you stories but have downloaded the rest so I can read them later,As a white man living with and very much in love with an Asian man I found your points of view very interesting send me your mail address and I will let you know what I think when I get through them.

  117. I must say that while I do indeed confess to being a “rice queen” (though that very term itself is racist), I agree that some older white men like Asians only because they look young, I must disagree that all of them feel this way. There are quite a few older white men who have an exclusive interest in Asians not necessarily for reasons of smooth skin etc., but rather for reasons that are not so easy to explain. However, like you, I am around the age of thirty (29), but look more like 22. I’m slim, smooth and boyish, like some of the Asian guys I’m interested in. I have, since I was *12*, been exclusively attracted to Asian guys, and I always will be. Am I to be labelled as a “typical old rice queen” when I really do grow old? That’s an unsettling thought.

    I want to say that I object to the way some people look down on me for my exclusive interest in Asian guys. It is not something superficial and worthy of mockery. I have gone so far as to have learned an Asian language and moved to an Asian country because of my “preference”, which is as central to me as being gay.

    Just to assure you that I don’t take advantage of “potato queens” and their obsession with white men, the Japanese guy I am dating now is the same age as me, and has only ever dated other Japanese in the past. Japanese *girls*, that is. I have adapted to his way of life in his country, using only his language when with him (he speaks no English). I think I might be breaking the mould of the stereotypical “rice queen” here.

    Having said all that, this is a very interesting site – keep it up.

  118. There are many men of all ages who are interested in Asian men.

    To call sexual attraction , or lack of it “racist” is to not understand racism.

    I’ve heard this all before from Asian men , who just because on any given night, in a bar, do not get hit on. I could tell you a lot of stories myself that would clear your perspective! At 23 , I went to a bathhouses and met a beautiful Asian man ( I am white ). I was with a beautiful Asian man for 10 years that was hit on every time he walked into any room ( and still is ).

    I am still with an Asian man , and I know all of the answers – much too much to place here. At the ” Baths ” , I have often turned down the most gorgeous of white men just to wait for the Asian or Latin guy – and the ones that I turn down are being chased by other Asians.

    There are so many factors involved here, not the least of all being : If these guys see one in the Baths all the time, maybe they think he is just too loose or worn out? Just one of the possibilities. Kind of like : “Oh, that guy again”.

  119. Although I appreciate the honesty in your stories your one-person viewpoint on GWM and GAM relationships is rather limited and masochistic. Although there is some truth to your theory that many Asians only like white guys while the reverse can not be said, I want to point out that your experience is confined to a particular locale and any generalization is misleading.

    Not every rejection is due to race. And somehow all your stories always come down to being ignored by a white man because of your yellow skin. Have you ever thought maybe he’s rejecting you because of the mole on your arm (if you had one) or the way you wear your bath towel?

    The way I see it just be proud of who you are and fuck the people who won’t give you a second look. Stop comparing yourself to a white man. Rick Schroeder? Gimme a break.

    Believe me, there’s a whole world out there away from that stinking bigoted rat hole of a bathhouse where Asians are getting laid and desired by whites, blacks, Latinos, Arabs, Jews and even other Asians! So go out there and find someone who can see beyond the color line and appreciates and loves you for whom you are. Peace, Stephen

  120. Your observations really hit the bull eyes. IMHO, Asians in North America really have problems dealing with their self-image. They couldn’t love themselves unless white men considered as the main stream in the gay society validate them. And they couldn’t see that this behavior bear some self-hatred characteristic. Most of them do not view their behavior as such and denial seems to be the norm. Call me a pessimist; these Asians in North America will continue searching for the white gay men’s validation.

  121. Just to let you know, you have a wonderful site. I’ve read most of the chapters and find it very interesting. I’m a 33 y/o GWM with a 37 y/o GAM partner. I know what Asian guys go thru, because I’ve seen it first hand. Not at the bathhouses, but at clubs and with my friends. When I first started going out with him, my friends were laughing at me, saying, “what, lowering your standards? Can’t find a white guy?” I found it very insulting to him and to me. I dumped those friends quick. Even at the clubs, I’ve had white guys see my partner and me together, and totally ignore him and start hitting on me. Right in front of him. I said to one of them, I’m here with my boyfriend, and the guy hitting on me said, “I thought you’d like a real man.” I started laughing and said, I’ve already got one. Well, sorry to drone on, but not all white guys is that bad. There are a few good ones out there. Just seem to be hard to find.

  122. Writing from Poland! A very interesting series of essays. I am particularly interested in your take on the racism issue.

    In your essays you have all the basic material for a novel or screenplay about the secretive world of the bathhouse – and with your powers of self-expression either medium is within your grasp.

  123. Hey, I’m a thirtysomething Asian guy in NYC, and I wanted to let you know how much I liked your site. I’ve been following it for some time and have wanted to drop you a line.

    You are SO RIGHT about the way in which we GAMs are treated by the GWM community, bathhouse or otherwise!

    Anyway, I have a totally worked out body and cute face to boot (so I’m told), but I can’t tell you how many MORE hits my body pic gets when I don’t describe myself as a GAM or Asian on my online profiles, etc.

    Anyway, keep up the great work, and I hope to hear back from you at some point.

    Later, cuteguy4play

  124. I moved from Albuquerque this summer. It was just as bad for the Native Americans. I really enjoyed your articles. It did make me examine why I do find Asians attractive. I have been with just about every nationality, even a guy that cerebral palsy. I like to think I am open-minded. But it’s true, none of my friends find Asian guys attractive. I have never understood. I also liked your comments about age. You’re right, it doesn’t matter what shape you’re in. It seems anyone attracted to me is really just interested in other benefits,$$$. Thanks for sharing your views

  125. Well I don’t know what to say. I loved reading your stories!! They are very addicting!! I am sorry to hear that you are going through a rough time. Just remember things will get better. I just wanted to say that I am a gay white male 24 years of age and ONLY DATE ASIAN MEN. I have always been attracted to them for as long as I can remember. I am definitely a Rice Queen. I even watch Shows on TV in Mandarin or Korean and have no clue what they are saying its just the guys in them turn me on. I don’t know what it is but I am literally OBSESSED with Asian Men. I think I have only slept with a total of 2 guys that were non-Asian!! And that was when I first came out at 17 and was surrounded by only Caucasian men living in New Hampshire. I moved to California when I was 18 and have been here ever since. I just love the diversity!! It has been a real uplifting experience for me being here! I am sorry to hear all of the trouble you have a had at the Baths. That really pisses me off that people can treat you like that. Sometimes I wish I was not white. I am ashamed to be associated with a race that treats other races like shit!! It’s not fair!! I just wanted to express myself to you and let you know that there was another white guy out there that was attracted to Asians only! Anyway I guess that’s all for now!! Take Care, Art – Hope to hear from you!!

  126. I fully agree with you on the invisibility of Asians in the baths. I lived in Chicago for 9 years and experienced what you wrote, well to varying degrees. which is why when I came back home to the Philippines and discovered how desirable I am among my fellow countrymen, well, the white boys can stick with each other. I love going native!

  127. I read your posting and I have to say that I totally agree with you.. But I’m a 22 year old Black male. I lived in Hawaii for 3 years, and the type of rejection you face, was the same type of rejection I faced from Asian men.

    I personally don’t have any racial preferences so I wasn’t seeking out anyone. But when you’re rejected from someone due to your race time and time again, it can either make you extremely bitter or have your self esteem fall.. But what I’ve realized is that people are entitled to their sexual preferences. Because why would I chase after someone who truly doesn’t desire me?

    As for your comment on every race chasing after white guys.. well for me it isn’t true. Don’t get me wrong, white guys are cool.. But I don’t chase after men. I let those who are interested in me.. to approach me.

    You say that is like me ,as a black ma,n saying that I sort of resemble.. Brad Pitt. You need to embrace your Asian features and not compare yourself to white guys.
    We are all born with features that are sometimes identifiable with our respective races. That is what makes us all very unique and different.

    By the way, how can you resemble the “boy next door” when there are 281 million white people in America?

    I’m trying to put you down or anything but you need to start loving yourself.. and stop comparing yourself to things you cant compete with..

    You shouldn’t let the opinions of men who frequent bath houses, bring down your self esteem. Because those are the type of men (guys who go to bath houses) I wouldn’t want to date.. Because I value my life and health more than hot body in a steam room or showers..

  128. Given that you republished all the comments presumably without permission, it would be nice if you removed the original posters name. And with all the confrontation and name calling, I’m not surprised the thread was deleted.

    You still raise a valid point. Sort of. For better or worse, there is no accounting for taste, and PC ends at the bedroom door. Sad as OP’s restrictions are, he still has a right to them, and it doesn’t make him a loser. He does need to learn about marketing (if you only want whites, do say “White Guy seeks Same” and it will cut way-y-y down on the nonwhite responses).

    I really cringe when I see “no fats, no fems, no Asians” as that is the crudest possible way to put it. Posters would do best to say what they do want, not what they don’t. (Still don’t know a positive way to say nonsmoker, non-drug-user.)

    Anyway, if he decided against his better judgement to ignore his feelings and go to bed with you, you can be sure the sex would be the most miserable you ever had, simply because he’s just not into it with you.

    BTW, I prefer Asian, and have slept with men of several races and many ethnicity, and am open to more that I haven’t due to lack of opportunity.

  129. I was somewhat disturbed when reading your stories to find that you have categorized GWM that like Asian men into those that are desperate and over 65, and those that have some sort of fetish and don’t care about the individual. My boyfriend is Asian and i am neither desperate or with him due to some sort of fetish. 🙂

  130. My sincere thanks, first of all, for the mammoth effort you have put into chronicling your adventures. I was thoroughly entertained and often moved to reflection. Your writing is clear and concise and realistic. I hope you don’t mind that I am moved to respond, hopefully with as much candor as you brought to the table. Several times I was almost moved to tears by your honesty… hoping to meet that special guy, but still drawn by the energy and openness of the bathhouse. I am not attempting to refute anything you have said, as I think you are on right on target 90% of the time, but just share the view from another side of the table.

    To get a few things out of the way: I am a 51-year old gay Caucasian male who has lived in Vancouver for 9 years. Previous to that, I lived in Boston for 20 years. (I grew up in suburban Connecticut.) I have never been to a bathhouse. I have thought about it from time to time, but have rationalized that the kind of sex I enjoy, with lots of kissing and cuddling, doesn’t belong to that scene. Having read your essays, I am no more inclined to want to go, but I am indeed fascinated by the world you have described.

    I am one of those older white males who is strongly attracted to Asian men. I am neither proud nor ashamed of that fact. You seem to think that matters of sexual attraction are conscious decisions. I don’t see it that way. Wallace Stevens wrote about the things one “happens to like” … I think that is closer to the truth. As in all things, the human mind adapts itself to new situations, but that evolution is largely a subconscious one.

    I have never looked at my interest in Asian guys as “settling.” On the contrary, for me, it has been a epiphany to discover the joys of interracial sex. I grew up in a lily-white suburb in Connecticut, and in Boston was surrounded by similar gay white men who never considered anyone outside of that world. Was I racist as a younger man? By definition, I guess I was. Other races were sexually invisible, as you described (aptly) older men in gay society. I never considered anyone from another race as inferior; but I was sometimes guilty of not considering them at all. 1950s and 60s suburban education in the USA bred that, but I cannot excuse myself. What stupidity! What a waste! I lived with a Caucasian lover for 5 years, and had a number of shorter relationships with other Caucasian men. I moved to Vancouver because I fell in love with the city, and because most of the people I knew in Boston died in the late 80s and early 90s.

    Moving here was a rebirth in many ways, not the least of which was being immersed in a more diverse (culturally and racially) community. I also began to stop worrying about finding the perfect life-partner, and started enjoying meeting new people and sharing whatever could be shared, either sexually or not. As a reasonably fit 51-year-old, I’m still attracted to and approached by men of all sorts. Some are white or latino or black; increasingly they have been Asian.

    Getting back to the evolution thing: I guess the mind and libido respond to positive reinforcement. If you have a good experience with a nice Asian guy, you are more inclined to consider the next. After a number of good experiences, you begin to stop looking at other white guys as sexual possibilities. Is this wise or good? No, but it happens.

    I am saddened by your use of such phrases as “Asian markdowns.” I sincerely regret if the actions and words of people such as myself or the society that influenced me have given you cause to feel that you are regarded that way. But please don’t think that a sincere affection for a number of men from your race means that I somehow regard you or them as inferior in any way.

    It might be hard to believe, but every year continues to get better and better. I am fortunate to have a few good friends, a few wonderful sex buddies, and the occasional opportunity to meet new guys. I hope you are finding your own versions of happiness. And many thanks for sharing part of your journey.

  131. Hi I really really am glad I ran into your site. I really appreciate your insights, and what you say. I am sorry to hear that people ignore you sometimes because of your race. I loved your essays. I need to say there are (white) men out there who are attracted to all kinds of men. I like tall, short, chubby, skinny, dark hair, blond hair, no hair, muscular, natural, you name it. Some men can see beauty in any race. It’s ok if an Asian man wants an older man, as long as he doesn’t think that’s all that would be interested in him. It’s ok for an older man to flirt with a younger any man, as long as one “no thanks” is enough to stop him. Listen everyone: Beauty shines from you. Whatever race you are, please realize the beauty you bring to the world when you are yourself, and Smile and Wink! If you ever want to chat, drop me a line.

  132. I am white. I have always been attracted to blonds, maybe because I am not. But my first boyfriend was black. And I have had a couple of relationships with Asian guys (some more casual than others!).

    Anyway, I think people who do not broaden their horizons are the ones who are losing out. People from other backgrounds can be very exciting to be with.

    If white guys stick to their own kind,they are losing out. It is a reflection on them, not on Asians or Latinos or Blacks or anyone else. That is something for white guys to think about.

    Now here is something for Asians to think about. One thing about America is that people do come here from other countries to become part of what they think America is. And many people whose families have come here from other countries think of America as ‘white’, and they want to fit into that. So my question is: Do Asians think that making it with a white guy means making it or fitting it? Do you put white guys on a pedestal and look down on other Asians? And here is tougher question, given me sense that Asians are sometimes even more racist that white guys: How many of you Asian guys have dated a Black or a Latino?

  133. I just read all of your essays. I learned a lot more about bathhouse life reading them than I did from one trip many years ago, plus maybe half a dozen trips to a SF sex club. It was painful to read your descriptions of what goes on for gay Asians at bathhouses in North America.

    I’d like to suggest, if it is possible to have more choices on your survey that you do so. Something like

    – I am only attracted to Asians.
    – I prefer Asians, and am also attracted to some other race(s).
    – I am only attracted to whites.
    – I prefer whites, and am also attracted to Asians.
    – I have some other preference (Latino, black, international buffet, etc.)

    The way it is worded now, guys who prefer whites and are willing to have sex with Asians don’t get counted in the Asian category. I have no doubt that if most of your readers are North American, I am only attracted to whites will still win out. It may not be as bleak as the picture painted by the two choices you offer. (And if it still is as bleak, we will learn something from that as well.)

  134. I read what you said about racism. At first, I didn’t know I liked Asian men, even though in the past I did find many of them attractive. I’m a white husky and I met an Asian chubby chaser. I was so happy, I fell in love almost immediately. In one date I sang him Frank Sinatra, we saw a movie, and the sex was great. Even though he didn’t blow me. He asked me to shave my nuts, and pubic hair, to to cum, and said he would see me again. But then he never saw me again, on the phone over the space of two weeks, he said that we needed more time to get to know each other but he wouldn’t find time to see me. He said I was too desperate. I was really in love with this guy, he was a republican, he was intelligent, he said he liked chubby men, he was also bisexual. That’s why when you talked about racism GAM experience I was surprised. This Asian man acted like the most beautiful thing in the world, like the kind of man that can get anyone he wants and so if he couldn’t get me, he’ll just get someone else, it doesn’t matter to him. But I’m not like that, I can’t get anyone I want, I just happen to like skinny/lean men and I’m willing to work hard to make the relationship work. Anyway, I just want to let you know this. Discrimination goes both ways.

  135. When it comes to desire, most of us are conditioned to be attracted to certain types by the time we are looking for partners. And this conditioning is difficult to overcome. GWMs, like us GAMs, are exposed to a certain standard of beauty. And that standard happens to be white, and to more of an extent today, black and Latino. However, we still rarely see an Asian Males as a standard (Jason Scott Lee, Rick Yune are but a couple). So it only makes sense that our desires might
    be influenced by this.

    When race comes into the equation, its almost impossible to decipher the outcome. Why is it that most gay blacks will date only other gay black men, while the majority of Gay Asian men seemingly tend to desire only white men and not other Asians? I think its to some extent cultural. Most Asian cultures are conformist, and patriarchal. We are taught to
    conform, and that being different is bad. So in a culture where you are different, many Asians might be applying that attitude towards themselves subconsciously. Thus thinking themselves and other Gay Asians bad subconsciously. This is what I believe is at work here.

    But to come back to your question. I think we cant be too harsh on the individual. But we can blame those in power–mainly white males. I say this because I truly believe, as the cliche goes, that with great power comes great responsibility. Those that control the media must be responsible because they have the power to shape public opinion. They have the power to create a stereotype, and they have the power to change attitudes. They must be made aware of this and be held accountable for the consequences of how they portray minorities in the media.

    Ultimately, I think that the Asian community must take responsibility to demand that the media portray us as a diverse group. That we can be sexy, and desirable. They must show Asian men in leading roles that are sexy, that do not stereotype us.

    Just one more thing about blaming the individual for this gay Asian phenomenon of GAMs mostly desiring GWMs. If I were to blame any one individual, Id be a hypocrite myself. I, too tend to not see people in a club, bar, public environment if they dont fit my idea of attractive.

    Although I am more inclusive of race in my idea of attractive, thats me. My experiences subconsciously predetermines who I find attractive. My taste has grown to be more inclusive of who I find attractive over the years as I grow and evolve, and as I do a lot of soul searching.

    Which is my main point about why we cant blame the individual GWMs. Because we are asking that they force themselves to examine their feelings and their motivations. I truly believe that the majority do not have any animosity towards GAMs. But they were never exposed to the idea that Asians could be hot. So they just don’t see us. Lets face it, the majority of people are not reflective, including Asians. So how can we
    ask individual GWMs to examine their own motives. Most only want to live their lives, like all of us GAMs also.

    So the real burden rests on GAMs, and Asians shoulders in general. We need to demand that stereotypes are not used in the media, and we need to examine why these stereotypes that are so pervasive already, still exist. We need to ask these questions to ourselves first before we can find the answer. This will change attitudes toward Asians slowly. I don’t think Ill see this change in my lifetime. Or at least not in my youth.

    I hope I got my point across. Its too easy to say that the white man is the culprit. Rejection is tough when you know that its not the kind of person you are that is being rejected–you’re never in the running just because of your physical appearance. And I think that the Asian community needs to be more self aware in order to combat stereotypes.

  136. I was saddened by your articles on GWM and GAM interactions. I guess I can understand and accept what you have written as being the ugly truth. For myself, when I started making Asian friends in Australia at age 12, I became more & more attracted to them as people. Generally, I find the Asian culture deep, the Asian heart sensitive and compassionate. I would not call it “a fetish”, I just prefer Asians from so many angles, and my interest in Asians grew to a sexual interest as I became more sexually aware. From what I see, there are more and more young white gays who desire Asians, and so hopefully the future will see something different. But I must say, there has been many times I have been attracted to Asians only to find that they don’t like white guys… and I think this has a lot to do with the bad behavior of most white guys towards Asians. In a world where gays are still treated as oddities, it is a crime that WE are so unnaccepting of the diversity in our own community. Though, I can understand that sexuality is a personal thing, and we can’t expect any man to be turned on by any other man – it has to meet our psychology. Sometimes though our behavior is disgusting and cruel. I applaud you for writing your articles, and hope that one day I can find an Asian husband who loves me for who I am and not just because I am white.

  137. Maybe if Asian guys were a bit straighter acting more of us white boys would like them. How often do you see Asian men in drag?

    While white men have masculine underwear parties where guys take off their shirts and expose rippling stomach muscles, Asian gay men have “Miss Asia” beauty pageants with Asian men dressing in drag, badly miming the words of Whitney Houston (their lips don’t even match the words because they can’t even speak English properly).

    The funny thing is, Asian gay men also have “Mr. Asia” beauty pageants, only thing is, it’s the same contestants who compete in the Miss Asia contests, but they dress as a male instead of a female for that night.

    Sure white guys do drag also, but there is an even balance between masculine and fem in the white gay community.

    With Asians, almost all of them do drag or walk like a faggot, are skinny, limp wrist and will basically suck off any old fat white man that they come across because that is all they are able to get looking the foul way they

    For f**k’s sake, even most Asians are repulsed by their own kind and chase white men because even THEY find themselves disgusting. (they are).

    I had a friend who dated an Asian who was muscular, and was shocked the next week he saw him out in a woman’s dress, a pair of high heels and a wig.

    It was the first and last time he ever dated an Asian, and he was the butt of many jokes for some time for it!

    If Asian gay men want to be accepted, try acting like a man for f**k’s sake.

    You WERE born as a male, act like one!

    It has nothing to do with race, it’s to do with Asian gay men being sissy, limp wrist with a hairstyle that looks like the head of a circumcised penis and little round circular steel rimmed glasses.

    They turn my stomach, as do fem white men who look like them.

    Most gay Asians make gay people look bad and deserve everything they get.

    Apologies to the half a dozen gay Asian men in the world that act like men and are insulted by this, this posting does not apply to you.

    1. I wanted/ had to respond to the disturbing nazi filth that “Anonymous White Cunt” wrote. I’m assuming he was for real.

      I’m surprised you know so much about the Mr. and Mrs. Asia events and I think you told it how it is. Except you missed that it is just for fun. Something you need more of.

      I pity you with your twisted views of what a man is. Since you are so butch and always tops how do you treat your passive partners? Are they lower than you too? Can you even relate to other people?

      Sure, I agree Asians can be feminine, just like many white guys everyone knows, I guess you notice the Asian ones more though, don’t you.

      That makes them easier to hate. You have so much hate it makes me question your upbringing. Why can’t you just tolerate people you don’t understand?

      It’s a shame you didn’t include your email address so I could write to you directly, what’s wrong?

      Aren’t you “MAN” enough?

      Love and Kisses without fear, Thomas

      1. But that doesn’t mean I act like you. Talk about being repulsed.

        Somehow, with your self-described superiority, I picture obesity, cigarettes,tattoos, and maybe a rusty fire-bird or pickup truck. (my apologies to the maybe half dozen fire-bird owners who don’t look like this guy).

        For many immigrants, you- the GWM- are the role model for the Europeans, Asians, Alaskan Indians who come here looking for acceptance by other gays. These folks left their home country, came here, are struggling like hell to learn English, feed their dependents, send money home, and want to fit in to the gay community. Shit, they would be arrested or worse if they wanted to be gay in their own countries.

        So appreciate what these boys are doing. After working maybe 2 jobs, English class, enduring insults from types like you, maybe they need to laugh and have fun, and put on a dress and heels once a year for a pageant. Could you move to Brazil and, without knowing the language, find a friendly face in a gay bar. Yes, as the Brazilians I know are hospitable. You are inhospitable to a major degree.

        Go ahead, slap the faces of those who literally worship you, o great white gay top man. Does that make you feel better. Insult their bodies, even though the delicate Asian body is a symbol of beauty around the world, at least more beautiful than some of our fatties or bears. Would you go out with practitioners of martial arts, with body’s that are supremely perfected, without the steroid induced bulk our athletes seem to sport.

        I doubt narrow minded bigots like you can be changed, but please don’t even think you are speaking for GWM; as I bet most of us would think you are a racist bigot, a minority inside a minority of generally happy, accepting, nice people, all
        male, all gay. Thank god there aren’t many like you.

        1. This hurts, but I am with you in that I think these types of ignorant comments need to be widely acknowledged in order for us to fight them.

          He confuses what gay Asian males are like with the images of small, unattractive, effeminate, and kimono-wearing gay Asian men created by the western media. I have personally met tons and tons of gay Asians, but I have yet to meet an Asian drag queen; I am jealous that Anonymous White Male (AWM) gets to meet so many of them, all the time!

          Also, I detected the underlying self hate in the comments made by AWM. He commands, You WERE born as a male, act like one! Well, perhaps he should start acting like a man by pumping some girls. He is obviously insecure about his own sexuality, if perceived femininity upsets him so much;

          I hate to sound Freudian, but he needs to deal with his own issues before attacking others.

          About Asians wanting his comments removed from the site… To me, that sounds short-sighted and ineffective. Racism *is* alive and well, and racism against Asians within the mainstream gay communities is real.

          Why would gay Asians want to deny that?

          It is a common (but ineffective in a long run) coping mechanism for *some* victims to deny the existence of racism around them. This strategy is widely observed, particularly among recent immigrants (the 1.5th to 2nd generation), and most gay Asians fall under this category. Basically, it hurts too much to think that they are oppressed; so, they’d do the best they can to believe that there’s no discrimination.

          Furthermore, both they and their parents/family tend to be still new to the country and, collectively, they have little understanding of how things work beyond that they have accomplished their small life dreams in this great country. They don’t ask for much more than that, because, deep inside, they have accepted the notion that they are guests in this country. Thus, they are often thankful of what they have here! For example, it probably doesn’t even bother them to know that Asian-American communities will never see one of their own become the President of the United States, nor do they care if TVs ER refuses to cast more than one Asian (a female who is highly sexualized–talk about the media stereotypes!), despite the fact that about 1/3 of the medial personnel in the Chicago area are of Asian descent.

          I don’t mean to defend the Asians who think we are cool, but I just wanted to tell you that I think I understand, theoretically, why they may want to deny that they are being oppressed. If racism is not there in their minds, there’s nothing for them to cope with. But once they begin questioning things, they know they’ll have to do some major revamping of their feelings, beliefs and behavior. In other words, they probably just want to leave thing uncomplicated, so they wont have to deal with racism.

          1. The comment above by the Asian really demonstrates my point.

            He seems to think that men dressing up as women are “fun”. Personally I find it sickening.

            Unfortunately most Asian men also think that dressing up as women is also “fun”, which is why they are so gross.

            They then turn around and wonder why we don’t find them attractive.

            Asians simply look dirty to me. They are dirty in nature, they spit everywhere, pick their noses, and burp and they have breath that is so bad they can cook toast with it.

            They have yellow and black crooked teeth cause they never brush them in their life.

            They are feminine, often do unsafe sex, and are in the highest risk category for catching aids, even above the S&M leather community.

            They dance in group circles in nightclubs chattering away loudly in some ugly sounding language, only stopping to wipe the sweat from there steamed up nerd glasses.

            What’s even tackier is when they show up in matching outfits and think it looks cool LOL.

            I’m happy to say that I’ve seen a few gay clubs I’ve been to recently reject groups of Asians saying “members only night tonight sorry” and turn them away, so the rest of us don’t have to put up with them, they’re a waste of space.

            Let’s face it, Asians are too stingy to buy a drink anyway, all they do is smuggle in a plastic bottle from outside and fill it up in the toilets (I know, I’ve seen them do it.)

            Maybe if an Asian reads this and realizes his, no, did I say his? I meant “it’s” faults then IT will change for the better.

            Asians are the most unsex guys on the face of the planet.

  138. Hello,

    1. I am a Trinidadian of mainly Chinese descent — of over 150 years. So that means that I am probably more rooted in the Americas than most — Americans.

    2. In Trinidad, there is no dominant race; while Indians (Deepak Chopra type not Geronimo) and Blacks are most numerous, they cannot be said to “dominate” the culture which is an odd mix of British administration and New World.

    3. I have lived most of my life in the Caribbean and Europe. In short, my perspective is different largely because I am more rooted and because the societies I know are different. One thing I have noticed in the U.S. is how unrooted people are. Perhaps recent immigrants arrive in this country and are so uprooted that there is that adolescent pressure to “join the group” i.e. to assimilate into becoming “a hometown American”. That rejection of one’s origins in the quest to fit in to a country with no deep-seated cultural personality leads one to what I call the “Borg mentality”. People of all backgrounds willingly merge into a professed commonness that regards “resistance” as “futile” and to be eliminated. So, the desire of gay men in the U.S., be they white, black, yellow, red or olive to become “assimilated into the Borg” means that most U.S. men want plain vanilla; anything else leads them to the frightening confrontation with how to deal with extreme diverseness among themselves. So the White, Jew, the Black, the Asian, the Indian etc. who all want White boyfriends are really living in the “Borg commonality” of wanting to assimilate. I, too, was brought up the fantasy world borne by American television and media, the means by which the Ameri-Borg spread. I, too, more likely identify with Europeans. However, I am aware that most Americans are hopelessly “assimilated into the collective”. Basically, most Americans are “drones”. The experience in other countries would vary; I expect that in other “youthful” countries such as Australia, Canada, South America would have similar spiritual angst at their lack of sense of individuals and seek “assimilation” by proximity i.e. White boyfriends. However, it would be interesting to see what older cultures, not beset by adolescent lack of sense of self, present to a gay minority. “Traditional” countries with little history of diversity (e.g. China, India, Germany, East European, Arab and African nations) probably would be interesting to study. “Colonial” countries like U.K., France, Spain, Holland and Italy are different from the U.S. and I have lived in them for most of my life. In Europe, I honestly can say, when I was a sparkling youth in the pre-Aids era (:>)], I had more dick offered to me than I could swallow. I wasn’t aware as a youth that I was attractive and have only come to believe it through the attention of good-looking strangers. While not most Europeans would consider me sexually “doable”, it certainly was above 20%. Now I am 45, the question of whether I am “doable” at the baths is more one of, “What is that geezer still running around the baths for?” than of “Why is that …..looking at me?” I would say that as much as Americans automatically respond to the question of what they are with a “true blue American” (i.e. an Ameri-Borg), a Western European (which excludes Germany) would find it almost alien to reply, “a true blue Frenchman…Italian…”. The very idea that one is defined quintessentially by the country of birth is bizarre. W. Europeans, like our futuristic earth society on Voyager, are “individuals” and know in their bones that there is more difference between individuals than between “races” or even “species”. Dare I say that Star Trek’s producers are saavy, globalists who tongue-in-cheek, week-after-week, poke thoughtful fun at the adolescent thrusts and crises of the U.S? So the next time you, or another gay minority, is at the baths and wondering if Prince White Charming is about to get into bed with you and “assimilate” you into his race and country; remember, when you join the Borg, you lose your individuality. I have a few more thoughts (I should have been Guinan, the timeless bartender on Next Generation) on the issue of gay minority sexual attractiveness. Summers in France (Italy and Spain) are special in that those countries have worker rights that have enshrined long paid summer vacations into law and expectation. For four weeks or more, major cities close down with most of the population rushing to hedonistic pursuits; often wife and kids head off for four weeks. Dad may or may not be all four weeks. So, what happens when wife is away? All those repressed bisexuals (2-5 on the McKinsey scale) no longer face societaly pressure to be hetero every day. Husbands linger in gyms and in town, partly deserted of women and children. Once I had to go to an outpatient surgery for a minor injury. The MD was a very attractive, East European intern who could barely speak French. For some reason, I stroke his arm as he examined mine. He vacillated but didn’t withdraw — just continued. Within a few days, this lonely East European, away from his country, culture and family, became a constant companion after his hours. After a few hesitant sessions, he proved to be a good lover — though I had to tell him that gay men would like thing to last a bit longer than 5 minutes of thrusting. He eventually revealed to me that he had never been attracted to men and I was the first one; he also committed fellatio for the first time and didn’t really like it. He had a wife and mistress at home and was approached by a French woman but she became too “clinging”. He was happy with my easy-going attitude to intimacy. I tried to figure out the psychology, the nature of his attraction. He hadn’t met an Asian before and felt that because my physical appearance was so diverse from his experience, he didn’t feel the same taboo of touching another man. i.e. It was ok to touch an alien man but not an earth man (An ironic joke [:>)] Of course, when the summer ended, he went back home to wife and mistress; never answered my letters, despite his passionate attentions when he was with me. I am sure I would get a cordial but distant reception if I turned up on his doorstep; or maybe he was caught up in the troubles of the Balkans….

  139. Loved your essays. I could definitely identify with them. I am very American, with a very American build and do get my share of good looking men my age of all races. But I think that if I were of equal looks as a caucasian, I would be irresistable and have more men interested in me. I know I sound a little conceited, but I am stating something here to make a point. I am always fearful that someone will reject me for being Asian. I don’t need them, but I want to pick a fight with them. I want to challenge their thoughts, and make them do some soul searching about why they have no desire for a hot (asian) guy. And sometimes I want to charm them and make them want me only to have the power to leave them hanging. That is my issue. Fact is, I know a hot guy when I see one. I have had long term relationships with white, Latino, and Asian — the longest being with the Asian for 6 years. I have been with Black men, but not long term relationships. But I am certainly open to having one with black men. I think that my open mindedness comes from a love for myself, and my refusal for settling for anything less. Life is not easy for us Asian Males (both straight and gay). what we really need to do is to demand for positive and diverse depictions of Asians from all walks of life. Asian men are often depicted in the media as sexually undesirable nerds geeks and freaks. Until this stereotypical image is eradicated, I fear that we will always be viewed as sexually undesirable. It’s very tiring. If you have any other essays out there, please email them to me, or point out where I can find them. They are enlightening. Thanks

  140. I loved your site and your stories as I too love exploring bathhouses in places I visit and it’s a nice way to meet guys in strange places – anyway I detract.

    I have to say I partly agree and disagree with your comments that GWM don’t like GAM. If you are Oriental then I disagree. If you’re an Indian national like me, I agree with some exceptions. For your info as an Indian national I have faced more rejections from GWM who are after slim, smooth skinned, fair, hairless, orientals. They absolutely love and crave them with a passion.

    I lived in Sydney for 2 years whilst I did my PHD and I’ll tell you how the GWM chased after these types of guys at saunas, bars, private sex parties, even in classifieds ads. They were not interested in dark skinned guys who were on the large side and also who were bears, as that was like their own men – in very general terms. I had many good gay friends who went after Oriental guys exclusively and they all told me that they liked them better than their own white men as these guys were slender/smooth/young and most times desperate for the attention of White guys, so eager to please. You should do a poll on Asian guys who are desperate for white men – you’d be surprised how racist Orientals are about getting it off with their own fellow Asians.

    Also to test this theory I set up personal ads on a personals site, with one profile as a smooth slender Japanese guy and the other as overweight, Indian bear. Guess which posting received more hits?? You guessed it.

    I assume you are Oriental but perhaps you did not place your ad in a popular ads site. Try some popular ones and see the response you’ll get which is overwhelming. My many Oriental friends have to set up numerous free email addresses to keep up with the influx of mails (pun intended) from GWM, especially older men. I had white guys offering me holidays, money and stuff because they thought I was Japanese. I corresponded with them for a while and they seemed to like me more each time until I told them I was actually who I was, and then like a hot brick I was suddenly dripped and then suddenly the person they wrote to and enjoyed corresponding with mattered much less than the image of the sex toy they had in mind, and they replied with sorry I’m after an Oriental guy. Why not even try a chat room as an oriental guy and you’ll be busy trying to keep up the conversations.

    Stop being prats guys; we have enough discrimination without needing it within our community. Grow up and enjoy MEN of all colours and creed.

    Your article should also perhaps more accurately say younger GWM reject GAM and add that older GWM are crazy about GOM (Gay oriental men). I guess its that little shy “boy” that Orientals tend to be.

  141. So what is wrong with white men being attracted to other white men? I am a potato queen myself, but I don’t quite agree with you conclusion of white men disliking Asian men. Despite your harangues about racism, prejudice, we are talking about gay BATHHOUSES, man! Yes, BATHHOUSES! What kind of place is a gay bathhouse? It is place for horny gay men to have sex and we all know that! It is not a place to meet really nice, honest people to start a potential relationships or something. As for racism, I think you misuse the word here. In gay bathhouses, people are horny, and they only go for what pleases their eyes. If they are not into Asians,or they can’t find a really hot Asian that would turn them on, of course they would go for other guys. Just because those white guys at the bathhouses didn’t not fuck you, it doesn’t mean they are racist. Remember, everything is purely physical and visual in bathhouses. People react to their hormones. I am not attracted to black guys( although once in a while, I see some very hot black guys), so if I am in a bathhouse, I usually wouldn’t pick a black man. But does that mean I am a racist! No, I am just not PHYSICALLY attracted to black men. To me, white guys(including Latinos) are the most handsome and most beautiful men in the world. I just love their more chiseled face and thick build. And again, I am NOT a racist. I treat people of all races with equal respect. And you can’t basically go by your own experiences in bathhouses. You can’t expect to score EVERYTIME you go there. There are probably a lot of other white men who can’t score a lot like you in the same bathhouses. It is like a lottery, you know. I have been to bathhouse; I have put both sex and personal ads on the internet, and I get a lot of responses from white guys. And I tell you, I am just very very average looking Asian. I have a white boyfriend now that I love so much, and I know a lot of other Asian have had success with white guys. So stop complaining and please fix your attitude and expectations. Good luck!

  142. I find your site very interesting indeed and tend to agree with a lot of your observations. I have a relationship with a Chinese person now in its 8th year and have many Chinese and Japanese friends and I find the acceptance amongst my GWM no different. Although I am attracted physically to Asian men, I personally enjoy the sharing of cultures and admire their good manners and wisdom compared to the majority of GWM that I seem to meet. Having worked most of my life in the airline industry I have found each country differs in acceptance of some Asian groups, however where I live is tourist orientated and most people have Asian contact either thru their workplace or social contact. I have not had the time to go thru your whole site but I will. Keep up the good work and best regards.

  143. I started reading your stories and found them very interesting. I have just stopped after the “racism” part and just had to comment…I guess I fit into the “older” category, but have always been attracted to Asians. I have given up on trying to approach Asians anymore, because with an Asian man, in most cases there always seems to be a “hidden agenda” i.e. LTR, that kind of thing. A “just sex” scenario is just about impossible to find. Once found…Asian heritage seems to prevail, and an almost negotiation scene crops up, and for some reason a need to make/do things just a little different from what is suggested comes up. I enjoy “my age” Asian men as much as the younger, but this constant battle has finally put me off and now I just seek out “my own”…if an Asian man approaches me, I just consider that to be a “bonus”

  144. I must confess that I spent a great deal of time chasing boys around in the Spa over an eight month period of my life. I saw a lot of things in that time, did a lot of guys and at the end of eight months I emerged with the love of my life. Over the last 5 years I have re-visited that same place twice and found the exact same people in the exact same places they were on the day I stopped going there. It’s like a TV soap opera! You miss it for two months and they’re still only a day later. Should I pity or admire those I left behind? I dunno. Maybe some people really don’t want to be in a relationship or can’t get into one because of the “magical” addiction to the unknown: the possibility that the next one will be even “hotter” or whatever else it is that draws them to the bathhouse night after night. I haven’t read all the essays but what I have read has conjured up images and memories of those exciting months and also some feelings of relief that I didn’t fall into the dark side of drugs etc. and most of all: I didn’t get “sick” (other than some crabs). I put this link on our site because there are many thoughts and opinions here that should be known. Not that they are all right or all wrong but because they will make the reader THINK about it …and thinking is a good thing! There are some who never been or who never plan to go to a bathhouse but one day they just might find themselves at the door waiting to get buzzed in. Perhaps after reading some of these essays, they might be better prepared for what lies beyond that door.

  145. I enjoyed reading your story on why GWM do not like GAM. I was very disappointed in the fact that you did not mention African American men having the same problems as GAM. Just like GAM, GBM face countless discrimination by GWM. What is sad is that, like GAM, GBM seek out GWM in large numbers. RARELY you see a GBM w/ another GBM. I myself am one of those GBM (I do not know why and I am ashamed of it). After witnessing the cruel way so many GWM treat men of colour, I can honestly say that I now have a love and hate relationship w/ GWM. One part of me is attracted to them yet another part of me cannot stand them. I must say that abroad is a lot different. I have spent some time in London and things are much different. White men in the UK do not care for race. I was surprised and uplifted by the openness I experienced. I cannot tell you the major boost of self-esteem I received when white men were talking to me, dancing w/ me among other things. In US, the mount of rejections faced by GWM sure puts damp onto the esteem of so many of the minority men. Anywho, that is all I had to say. I wish you would recognize the fact that GBM face the same amount if not greater rejection as GAM. 🙂

  146. Hi, I have been reading the discussion on GAM and GWM. Thought to give you my perspective. First, I think any race has some very handsome people — and I love them all regardless colour. Second, we Asians as minority in a white dominated country should not expect being looked exactly the same. Just think about a black, or a white, or a Mexican living in a country such as china or India — is he going to be treated exactly the same? Definitely not, so instead of being disappointed, look for the ones who like us (there are plenty of them out there — even only 5-10% — still sufficient), and ENJOY LIFE. I know this is a controversial topic. So if you don’t agree with me, don’t be mad, just take my message as boyarick’s opinion, and ignore, ok? Have fun. Respect, arick 🙂

  147. First, every Asian-American should read the book by Helen Zia titled “The Asian-American Dream”, or you will be chasing for acceptance for a long long time. Accept yourself first, as an Asian-American. The gay part, will take this society much longer. Second, I appreciate all the time you put in to write the various aspects of Gay Bathhouse. Although I do not agree with your every view, your view is very insightful. Lastly, if you’re ever in a Asian-predominate area like Hawaii, your view will change. There are many many Asian guys here who does not fall into your stereo type of ‘must have my GWM’, many are ‘sticky’, thank God.

  148. Luv to discuss this subject – it’s close to my heart and the one problem I have with certain guys!

  149. I read some of it, enough to get the gist and probably will go back and read more. I’m 45 and just parted with a 28 y/o Asian lover whom I was with 2-3 years. We had a great time and continue to be very close. I have to say, he has almost the same attitude the guy with the website has. He thinks there are just a tiny minority of white guys out there that like Asians and most of those that do only do as a last resort because they are either too old or too ugly to get a white guy like themselves. I tried on a number of occasions arguing with him but to no avail. Personally, I’ve always thought many Asian guys are some of the most sexy, gorgeous guys around and told him that only for him to not believe me. Of course I wouldn’t go out with many Asians, just like I won’t go out with many white guys because they are just not attractive to me. I know he continues to love me allot, but actually he was the one that cut the relationship off because he just couldn’t handle the age difference. What he doesn’t understand is that his attitude is actually the racist/ageist one and he ends up projecting that attitude on the “white guys” he thinks don’t like him. It’s really quite unfortunate and is mostly about his own low self-esteem, however, I admit those attitudes he has have some modest basis in fact, I believe, although not nearly what he assumes. He now has a white boyfriend only a couple years older than himself. I got sort of a chuckle reading the thread about Irish/redhead guys because his new boyfriend is that and in my opinion won’t age well and however great a personality looks icky to me. I’m debating sending him the link to that Asian guy’s webpage. It could either fuel the fire or maybe he might see dysfunctional in their common opinions.

    1. Seems like only the ‘old’ rice queen knows what is going on here. It is not enough to be a minority inside a minority inside a homophobic society, eh. Everyone has to pile insults on top of someone who has chosen to speak out. I guess that is why this is a gossip forum. Who else here would write about this stuff. How it must suck to see the racism, although where I live we can’t get enough people who are not white. It is interesting to see the world through the eyes of this guy. Keep reading, maybe he will surprise us

  150. Its my first time to visit your website and i find your articles very interesting….especially the article about racism at bathhouses…keep it up man..and i do agree with your stand about this..more power…..

  151. I like your stories, very valuable since I only came out recently after a painful time in the closet (30 years!). Now I have come out I feel free and live a happier life but was not aware about how to handle the bath houses. Thanks again!

  152. I have read your essay about racism in the bathhouse. I like it very much. Congratulations.I am not a GAM, but all my life I’d like to know an Asian boy… am 32 years old now and I live in Mexico. Here there aren’t a lot of Asian people… Then I couldn’t do my dreams a reality. I’d like to meet you. bye.

  153. Your article on “GWMs don’t like GAMs” is very true. But that doesn’t only happen in gay society. It also happens in hetero world. White race have been praised ever since. If you look at cosmetics product in Asia, it’s all about having fairer skin. It’s obvious that all campaign always says something good about being ‘White’. Asians now even started to perm their hair to blonde, etc. So why do GWMs have to chase other race? It’s so obvious, let it be. As an Asian myself, I’m attracted to GWM but I don’t think I can find my love with them. For most of them relationship is just impossible. We just have to be proud of ourselves. we always look younger than them, have better skin and there are so many of us. We, including me, are just to shy to admit that we are gay. Typical Asian. May be we have to be more open and have positive campaign by showing that we are interesting race, really. In short, I like the web but I haven’t really visited bath house near by. I’m still paranoid about STD.

  154. I don’t think that you are right about white guys not really liking Asian guys. Sexuality is a delicate and changeable thing. It just all depends. I am a very attractive, young white guy. I didn’t like Asian guys a while ago, but ever since my boyfriend, who is Korean, became my best friend about three years ago, I have only been interested in Asian guys.

  155. Hey, I enjoyed reading some of your stories and completely understand your thoughts. Like you, I’m also a Chinese guy and have been visiting Bathhouses. Don’t get lucky every time or end up with some guy I probably wouldn’t have…Like you, I don’t suck dicks for the same reasons (I thought I’m the only one!) In fact, I don’t take blow jobs too for fear something might get passed on to me. Oh well, just to let you know how much I enjoyed reading your stories and I’ll be back to read more of them. Take care and have fun at the bathhouse. If you know of any good ones to recommend, I’d love to check them out during my next visit to the U.S.

  156. I am a 27yo Cuban/Italian/English/Japanese male. I have the almond eyes in amber and green. I must say that although my eyes a indicators of my Asian background I am European as well. I must say that I have never encountered these problems. As a matter of fact I am the one that gets chased by Caucasian men, but I prefer anyone that is attractive. I think the problem is people can not see beauty. I have a knack for spotting attractive men though. An attractive man is an attractive man regardless of the race. People need to go beyond race. Now, if you are ugly that is a different story. If you are trying to get with a Hugo Boss model and you look like Don Knotts, then I think you might have a problem. I have seen many good looking Asians, but, there are many UN-attractive ones too. This goes for any race. So let’s get to the bottom of this.

  157. I find your writing interesting, but noticed you’ve overlooked one very big possibility in your search for the answers to the “racism” you’ve experienced.

    When men go to the baths, the majority of them are into anonymous sex, and don’t want someone that’s friendly and conversational. They want to get off and leave. Yes, it’s rude, but that’s the way they look at the baths. So your inviting face can actually scare some men off, because they might actually want more, and be afraid of it.

    Also, because you sound very attractive, I’m sure some men are intimidated by you and avoid you out of fear, not racism. But when someone avoids you, you have no way to know what is really going on in his head. And to be honest, it does both him AND you a disservice to assume that it’s racism and not insecurity or something else. I personally know MANY men that have NO racial preference, but only want someone that’s nice, kind, self sufficient, and as turned on to them as they are to him. You sound like that kind of guy. So please don’t let misunderstandings of “bath house behavior” make you think most white men only want white men and not Asian. It’s just not true. And if I were close, I’d prove it to you. ~wink~ I hope you’ll stay the nice guy you seem to be and not let situations make you bitter.

    Don’t get me wrong, I used to go to bath houses. But there are better places to meet men than bath houses. Bath houses are basically for anonymous sex.

  158. I Just read “Racism at the Bathes” and several other essays and just wanted to say that I’ve run into Asian guys who have the attitude of some white guys….. Basically if i give some Asian guy signs I’m interested, (eye contact etc…) he automatically assumes I’m a rice queen and would do anything for him… do you think this is reverse discrimination or just another sign of the Asian culture “wanting approval” and stretching that approval out as long as possible? Lastly, in closing while i agree that most guys at the bathes are looking for a quickie i think you underestimate the number of us out there who enjoy cuddling or are looking for an authentic connection….. While i don’t expect it at all, the possibility always exists perhaps some of us hope for that oh so rare combination of sexual attraction combined with compatible personalities. While these situations are rare they do exist .. some of my closest friends have come from the bathes, regardless of the fact we no longer have sex . So take heart! perhaps somewhere in that bizarre, mercurial, hedonistic bath house culture we can find that spark and make it last longer than check out time… hoping you’re well and maybe we’ll meet around the next corner 🙂

  159. Read your essay about Racism at the baths. Very interesting. Having never been to the baths (just never have, no judgement implied), I cannot attest to the validity of your experiences. But, as a GWM who *is* interested in Asians, I want to share my observation of something I have noticed. When I look at or date a GAM I have found two very annoying things. All his friends label me as a “rice queen” and all my friends label me as rice queen. It’s demeaning to my Asian boyfriend and me. I try to laugh it off but it gets really demoralizing — more so when being said by other Asians because more often than not it is said with intense venom rather than humor. Now, I do tend to find Asian men more attractive that most men, but if I’m an anything-queen, it’s a non-white queen. I just am almost never attracted to white guys. But, jeez, look at Asian men and you get labelled immediately! I mean, I grew up in White bread, USA, where dating someone outside of your race was considered taboo. Here it just seems despised but by a whole different group of people. Oh, and the other annoying thing about dating Asian men is that everyone assume you’re looking for the whole “submissive oriental” thing. Trust me, if you’re submissive

  160. It’s with much interest that I started to read your comments about racism in the bathhouses. The way you feel about Caucasians I guess is the way I feel about Asians. Ever since I was a young man I always felt that Asians were the most sexy, attractive men I ever met but they were only interested in running after older Caucasian men. Let me say at this point that I am a black male, educated, healthy, and athletic and generally considered attractive. I am not particularly attracted to Caucasians but I don’t seem to be able to get the time of day from most Asians. I used to hang out at a bath in Chicago so I know what you’re talking about. I have never been in a situation where Asians were the majority but from my experience with the minority it’s been tough just getting close to them.

    Like I said earlier I was always attracted to Asians partly because I grew up and went to school with East Indians. So I did not become interested in them at some advanced age.

    For me personally when I was approaching 40 I decided after watching older men in bars that that was the last thing I wanted to happen to me. When I started losing my hair and turning grey I vowed to stop going to gay bars and the like. I did not want to deal with the rejection. So that’s exactly what I did.

    That does not mean I stopped having sex, but I refuse to bring myself down by pursuing the impossible dream. My last serious sexual encounter was with a neighbor who was from Thailand; I was in my early fifties then. By the same token one has to live one’s life with dignity. I’ve seen people do things that I won’t do, but one has to live with oneself and every one’s different and must decide for him. I am going to read your other articles and I may have further comments, but it’s as if you had walked in my shoes.

  161. White male—racism against Asian male dose not apply here—You would be welcome in my bathhouse any-day

  162. I cannot believe how identical our thoughts are on all of the the subjects you’ve written essays about (the bath house chronicles). As a Filipino in Canada, I pretty much experienced and thought about everything in your essays. Some of them especially the ones dealing with rejection affects me so much since I continually live it every time I go to the baths, that it really somehow manages to make me emotional a bit (Ugh!). Anyways, Thank you for taking the time and I assume, pleasure of writing and posting your thoughts on-line.

  163. I read your “Racism At The Bath” article and understand what you’re talking about. I’m a young-looking black guy of mixed ancestry: smooth reddish-brown skin, toned body, flat stomach and nice chest. And though I could be mistaken for Tiger Woods, my encounters at the baths have been hit and misses. Like you, I get hit on by older guys who think I’m a tasty little twink. But finding someone close to my age is hard. I don’t chase after white guys precisely because everyone else does. I like the look of Asian, Hispanic, or Native American guys: I don’t if it’s their bone structure or their smooth, olive skin. But few would have anything to do with me: one guy who initially showed interest backed away when realized I wasn’t Mexican. I’m not sure who’s at the bottom of the totem pole: blacks or Asians. I was alone in a sauna once and a frat-boy looking white guy in an A&F cap walked in and sat across from. He gave me the eye of interest. And even though white guys don’t interest me, I hadn’t gotten any that day and decided to play a little. We showed each other our wares and he even played with my dick and told me I had a nice body. But an Asian guy walked in, saw and dismissed me, and took an interest in the white guy. The white guy seemed to have forgotten we were playing. He tugged at his crotch, the Asian gave him a suggestive look, and the two walked out together. The thing is, I had seen the Asian guy earlier and tried to get his attention. He ignored me and went off with some out-of-shape, older white guy. I didn’t take personally at first, just thought he liked the daddy types. Nope, he just liked them white.

  164. Enjoyed your stories. I live in San Francisco and I love Asians. I’m a good looking white person, but when I see Asians I become hard instantly. If white people want to be so close minded, their lost.

  165. I just wanted to commend you for your courage in writing about the issue of racism and the preference for all things white in the gay community. I have read some of the criticisms sent to you and all I can say is keep on telling the truth. I’m not Asian and have never been with an Asian guy, I’m a 22-year-old black gay male. I am honestly attracted to cute men of all races but it’s just a fact that most gay white men are very intolerant when it comes to dating men of other races. I can imagine that the situation is particularly complicated for gay Asian men because so few are interested in dating each other. No matter what anybody tells you racism in the gay community is real and your stories are very compelling and truthful.

  166. Not all white guys dislike Asian guys. I’m incredibly attracted to Asian guys. You should come to San Francisco. White guys and Asian guys together seems to be a lot more common there. I travel around a lot, and am in Hartford, CT right now. If you’re ever out this way, drop me a line. I don’t know if you like really young guys (in which case I don’t qualify) but I’m a swimmer in good shape, professional, etc. Let me know.

  167. Thanks for the interesting stories – original, intelligent….But! I think – at the risk of offending you – you’re not being totally honest, at times. The “racism, I don’t suck thing” sounds more like a symptom of not being totally out. I am white, have had sex with lots of hot Asian guys, see a lot of Asian guys getting sex…I’ve also seen a lot of guys, of all races, still struggling with gayness, standing at the sidelines in bathhouses (the type actually turns me on, that’s why I’ve noticed). Don’t limit yourself, everybody has their time, for their own reasons – yours are particular to you. Maybe guys find you sexy but standoffish? For years, I was in the same predicament. I had this litany of things I “wouldn’t” do, which, it turned out, offended a lot of guys, because they were looking for a “yes”, not a “these are my conditions”. I realized it’s way sexier to give than to take – and I stopped keeping track of the scores per visit thing. I’m not the “gay ideal” – I look like a skinhead, and my shyness is often confused for hostility – but when I go to the BH as “just me”, and not as a minority member, things are very busy. Some times, I spend whole time with one guy. It’s up to me, it’s my space. It’s also your space, too. Please keep writing… Sean

  168. 22yr old black gay male here who happens to take offense to some of your comments, first off, not all men of color find white guys the end all. I happen to be dating a very black men who i Love and would never, never, never, leave for a pale, world destroying white man. It sounds to me that you need to learn to respect yourself first, going to bathhouses is one not safe, two, a very bad place to look for potential dating partners. Why don’t you just find yourself a nice Asian boyfriend. White people have been running this country for far to long, don’t give them more head trips by saying that they are the only desirable people in the gay world. Shit, I’ve had countless white guys come up to me, but i always tell them one thing, and you should keep this in mind “sorry but i do not get into white guys”, just keep your head up man and one day you will be rewarded.

  169. I stumbled on your website by accident and find it quite fascinating and extremely insightful. I must agree with much of what you say is true. I’m a GWM and am very attracted to Asians I admit. I love Asia and Asian culture. I never felt guilty about my attractions toward Asians until now. My boyfriend is from Taiwan and he hasn’t seen your website but he has confirmed much of what you’ve said. Your exactly right when you said that the gay community is racist toward Asians and many white guys have no interest in being with Asians. I’ve been to 27 countries, some of them several times. I’m bored to death with white gay Americans who have such limited cultural experiences. My lover and I are attracted to each other because we come from opposite cultures and can always learn from each other and I think this is the basis for at least some other GAM-GWM relationships. I don’t have any Asian friends who fit the stereotypes you describe of being submissive and subservient and I don’t want to know anyone like that anyway. I never considered the politics of being in a GAM-GWM relationship as deeply since reading your entries. I’ve been with my boyfriend for over a year even though he goes to graduate school on the east coast and we can’t see each other that often but he is worth waiting for. The dream we are waiting for is to be able to finally live together permanently because we have citizenship for different countries. Gay people in this country regardless of ethnic background are all second-class citizens here and especially for that reason we must not be racist toward anyone.

  170. HI, there.

    You seem to be very interested in age, so I’m 42. I read your article about discrimination. Very interesting, but it happens everywhere. It’s not the Asians. It’s the whole world believing that white is beautiful and Mexico is no exception.

    I am neither white nor handsome; I’ve been to the baths and I’ve seen many of the things you mention in your article. I can be as shallow as you are -I’m gay, too- but fortunately I’ve had more than my share of beautiful men (white and American included). I’ve settled down, now and I’ve had a partner since 10 years ago, but two weeks ago I visited Mexico City and couldn’t resist going into a bathhouse. One of the things I was curious about was my appeal; if I still had it after having turned 40 and yes, I still attract my share of people younger than me, many of them still in their 20’s. Of course, I don’t mean I had sex with many guys, but you know what happens when people like you, what the feeling is.

    It’s sad that you live there among white people. It’s funny that you give so much importance to the attraction to them, especially because you seem to be such a valuable guy. It’s sad that the Asian community don’t see how beautiful they are, and I don’t say this because I am over 40: I’ve liked Asians since I was very young, but of course, maybe my opinion is not so important because I am not a WASP. Anyway, it was a pleasure to read your article and hope my comments can be useful.

    Jorge, A friend in Mexico.

  171. I read with interest your story about why GWM don’t like GAM – in my case you are dead wrong, my friend – I am GWM and I find Asian males – gay or straight – drop dead sexy/gorgeous – I could go on for hours about why, but let’s just say it’s the GAM that does it for me! (I stumbled onto your site while searching the net for Gay Asian Males! and now I am so hot I will probably head for a bathhouse! Maybe, in complete anonymity, we will meet!) Later!

  172. I find your remarks quite sad actually. I am a 32-year-old white male who is attracted to all different types of men. My last boyfriend was from Vietnam. I am attracted to all types of men, but especially guys with dark hair and features. Glasses are a MAJOR plus (don’t ask me why???). The guys I like can be Asian, Indian, Hispanic, or white. It does not matter.

    I have found the Asian guys that I have been with quite adorable. I am saddened that you feel white guys do not like Asians. For me it is the exact opposite. In fact I know plenty of white guys who like Asians. We are out here. Unfortunately it seems no one can ever find the person they want. For me it seems like most of the Asian guys I have met go with older white guys, or with the gym bunny types. I get so discouraged sometimes. I joke with my friends and say maybe after I turn 40 I can find a nice Asian guy to be with. As for now, most of them don’t even give me a second glance. I have a boyish face as well and it seems the only people that chase after me are older (I mean much older) white guys. So you see, I have the same problem as you. Fortunately, I have learned to be happy with myself. Maybe someday I will find my Prince, but as for now, I will make the most of it on my own.

    Comments: I just entered a public response, but now wanted to send you a private message with my e-mail address. I have not read all of your articles, but have read a few. I am interested in finding out what city you live in. There must be a ton of Asian guys there. I would die if I went into a bathhouse that was full of Asian guys like the one you mentioned. I would not know what to do!!!

    I have lived in cities where there are not as many Asian guys and they always seem to find nice BFs. It makes it hard for me to compete actually. I am just an average all-American guy in appearance and the activities that I enjoy (sports, outdoors, travel etc.). I am a naval veteran, Eagle Scout etc. I think part of my problem is that I am afraid to approach guys I am attracted to. I can talk to anyone and everyone EXCEPT if I am attracted to someone I usually do not approach them. I am afraid of being rejected again. It gets VERY old actually, so I quit trying. I am at a point in my life now where I would like to settle down and meet someone that I can date. It is hard though. I wish you the best of luck. Perhaps someday we can both find someone. -Kyle

    Also, I used to be in this club called Asians and Friends Chicago. I was actually one of the younger white guys in the group. It was mostly older white guys. A lot of the Asian guys in Chicago would avoid the group like the plague because they viewed it as a place for “older” white guys to pick up on young Asian guys. For me it was not a pick up place at all actually.

    I go on Yahoo fairly often and do the Webcam thing. I am not sure if you are interested in that kind of thing or not. Actually I prefer that now to the bathhouse. Let me know if you are on Yahoo and we can chat sometime. 😉

  173. Very interesting article on the difficulties Gay Asian Men face in the dating world. As an African American, I know what it is like to be “invisible” in bars/clubs/baths. However, I feel that it is even harder for an African American man to get noticed by An Asian man since it seems that they only want to date white men. In any case, it is important that we as individuals at least attempt to give equal time to all.

  174. I find your essays on the mark. I have frequented different baths in NYC for many years. I have found that Asians in particular seem to have an affinity for me. I’m not sure if it is because I also am attracted to Asians or because I am a white guy different from them. I have close Asian friends and usually find Asian great sex partners. I am very careful with whom I have sex, and usually feel Asians are safer than some other groups. As a general rule, when I go to the baths I review my safe sex rules that I have developed for myself. I won’t have sex with anyone no matter how attractive I find them if they are a member of a group that I think is unsafe. ( My prejudices may not be accurate but they work for me.) My experience at the baths yesterday was typical. I met a Asian friend(Korean) who I have been with before. We showered together, used the steam room and then had a long afternoon of kissing and sucking, ending with each of us swallowing each other’s load. I would only do this with someone I felt absolutely safe with.

  175. Well sir… I just got done reading an entry about, and the subsequent responses therein, to an article about GWM not finding GAM attractive…

    Being a gay Filipino/White half-breed ‘mutt’ (and I use the term in endearment) is something of a paradox to me. Living in a predominately white community, I’ve found a guy easily who found me very attractive, and we’ve been together for almost a year now. What gets to me is that he’s what some would classify a ‘white cub’, and it just happens to be what I love. (A big, fuzzy white guy to cuddle up with and love.) And all signs seem to say that he loves who I am.

    And I know some will spout how they like thin guys, BLAH BLAH BLAH… This is how I see it… everyone has their own preference, and SHOULD NOT BE JUDGED FOR IT. The mere fact you have a SEXUAL preference and want straights not to judge you for THAT shoves the “I like whites but whites don’t like me” argument out the window. It’s sad and pathetic to see people griping and making generalities about others like that. It is and always has been a matter of preference…

    However… I have been infected with the thought that we’re seen as ‘exotic’ and ‘rare’, staining the gay white pool already streaked with the tans and browns of Latinos, blacks, and Indians with our own mocha tinge. The man I’m with now even said himself, “I’ve never been with a Filipino before… it’s exciting… it’s one of the first things that attracted me to you.”

    The sad thing is… I actually thought not too long ago that I wouldn’t be able to find anyone because I wasn’t white… yes, you read right… because I wasn’t white… It’s called an INFERIORITY COMPLEX, and a lot of minorities suffer from it… Thankfully I no longer do.

    Look. I’m not here to preach. But I am going to speak my mind. I like white guys with cute little goatees and, yep, we’ll say a bit on the big side. Oh FUCKING WELL. I’m sorry if I don’t fit the norm, and I’m sorry I don’t tailor myself to a ‘typical homo’, if that even exists! I’m sorry that twinky white ‘barely legal’ bois don’t do it for me (as if they’d ever be interested in me, right guys??) We are all GAY and we’re all in this TOGETHER. That cute white guy doesn’t like you cuz you’re ASIAN… well, FIND ONE THAT DOES! And perhaps, if you can’t find one… then maybe it’s time to step out of the bathhouse and the people you find in them, get some respect for yourself and some self-confidence, and give a monogamous, loving relationship a try with someone who genuinely finds you, mind and body, irresistible, instead of constantly seeking random dick and ass…

    …Oh wait… I forgot… all fukkin gay gays want is a mouth on their dick and an ass to fuck… my bad… thanks everybody for making sure that all we’ll ever be seen as are drooling, sex-craved perverts cruising bathhouses and parks for whatever wants to bend over.

    Griping in Ohio

  176. I only read a few pages, but I disagree with it a lot … there is no objectivity, in either your polls or your writing, and you state a lot of your opinions as “fact” … I think its very unfair

  177. Just thought I’d let you know I’m white and I like Asians. No I’m not 65 and I don’t weigh as much as a mini-van: 181cm/74kg/32yr gym fit, blue eyes and a smile I like to flash – or that’s what my publicist says to say at any rate 😉

    I haven’t always been attracted to Asians – not that I was not ever attracted to Asians, but now I find myself almost exclusively attracted to Asians. About 4 years ago when I really came out and started going out to gay places I had a fling with a guy from Singapore who was so beautiful and so wonderful. I guess that experience really made an impression on me, because since then I’ve pretty much lost interest in other non-Asians. Also I have a suspicion there’s something going on in my subconscious about wanting to assimilate to my environment (have lived in Japan off and on for 8 years), but I won’t let myself slip into that line of psycho-babble…it’s not a case of anyone from the EAST will do. Not at all as I like taller guys, lean and muscular, smooth skin, quiet with nice eyes. And more than just physically, I find that Asian guys seem to have a similar outlook to my own: serious about career or goals but without being aggressively yuppie about it all.

    I will say I can understand what you say about the average reaction of GWM to GAMs. A couple of Japanese friends living in Rotterdam – both very good-looking – often talk about how tough it is to get a date; and one of my best friends is U.K. Chinese (born and bred near Plymouth) but there is always some group of creeps ready to give us flack when we go clubbing in London. On the other hand, have you ever come across the sticky rice phenomenon? I went out with a Chinese guy in HK for a year or so. Most of his friends were v. freaked out that he was seeing a white guy. Always asking him “so you don’t like Chinese anymore?” and making me feel like I glowed in the dark or something. Or I have been turned away from all kinds of saunas and cruising spots in Japan because I am foreign. I guess I just wanted to let you know there’s another perspective out there. I also think maybe things are different on the west coast: LA or SF. no first hand knowledge there though. Bet we could have a pretty interesting conversation about this. Although if I met you at a sauna I doubt I’d be looking to chat. Trying to imagine a Chinese Rick Schroeder… A

  178. I have recently read your articles about ‘Racism at the Baths’ and ‘Rice Queens’. I came across your site quite by accident as I was looking at a forum on inter-ethnic dating on Fridae.com. At any rate, I am a GWM, 32, in-shape guy. Like your description, I wouldn’t say I am unattractive, and am your boy next-door type. I have dated Asian men. Am I a rice queen? I guess so by the accepted definition from the community. Is it a fetish? No! I feel as if I am in a ‘damned if I do/damned if I don’t’ situation. I am rejected by other GWM for dating outside my ethnic group and am touted as a fetishist for having a GAM as a boyfriend. I cannot help it that the American media has played up white as the superior ideal. America is predominately white. Does that make it right? No! The country celebrates its diversity but shuns most ethnic communities or relegates them to stereotypical roles. I am at a loss and plead ignorance to this phenomenon. I had no idea of the anger, and yes hatred, that is felt by members of the gay Asian community. Our community, the gay community, has enough problems with the mainstream community. I have always felt that gays are the ones that are most accepting and most tolerant of any group. Dissention among our people does more damage than anything else. I am truly sorry for the experiences you have had. I know that is easy to say, as I am a gay WHITE man. I will never understand or appreciate what minorities go through in America. But I live in Japan and have been here for almost 4 years now. Guess what? There is a large community of gay Japanese that desire white guys. White guys are the trophies. And I feel discriminated against as well. It hurts. It makes me feel cheap and socially lower than the majority. It isn’t right. But all people, regardless of where they live, how they were raised, anything, are prejudice and discriminate, subtle as it may seem. I am not sure what I am rambling on about. Your article is one of about 10 I have downloaded and read today and to be totally honest, I am not sure how to feel or what to say. Scared. Angered. Hurt. I am not sure if any of this makes sense or if you even care or read this but at least I am able to express some of my feelings that are wizzing around inside me at this time.

  179. Thank you. Thank you. THANK YOU! For writing such excellent materials. I agree 100%. Many GWM complained, but finally more are more are realizing that as a rule, GWM just don’t want us. I have heard these things time and time again. Thank you

  180. Thank you for sharing your stories about bath houses. At 30 years old, I have to admit that I’ve never been to one (thought about it and have been reading up on it – but just haven’t made that step to go to one). I also wanted to respond to your “Racism in the Baths” article – I’m a 30 year old, gym-type GWM and I find Asians to be very attractive – even more attractive than the white male – in skin color/tone, eyes, hair, facial structure and culture. Asians are beautiful!!! Take care and thank you for listening to my thoughts.

  181. White man used to be my fetish; i have been in a relationship with a white guy almost 3 years. I understand that nothing wrong to have a white boyfriend but as long as we live together I realized that this is just a relationship of convenience. What do you think? He lives in my house and he didn’t help me to pay the rent, even bills .it was hard to suggest him this kind of things. i was wondering myself why I’m not attractive to guys who is my own race? Why i don’t try something I’ve ever tried? Finally we ended up. Think that I choose the right thing. I feel I just get out of the trap and I think myself I’ll never fall into a trap any more. i feel happier than before ,thanks for your wonderful web site.

  182. Interesting articles you wrote. I thought a lot about it but I don’t recognize your feelings about racism towards Asians. In Amsterdam many Asian guys have western friends in the same age/attractiveness. Also me and my friends (20s/early 30s) don’t mind and actually sometimes dating an Asian, as long as he’s nice, honest and intelligent. Of course there are the typical age-difference (old/fat Dutch guy/young Asian) couples, but who cares if they’re both apparently happy. If I go to a bath, my only motivation is to have a nice time, political correctness or racism is the last thing I think about.

    But maybe the experiences are different where you live? It can be clichés… I must admit that I often am approached by Asians in a LTR with an older man, and choosing me as a younger/cuter ‘side choice’, or only interested in me because I look like “Prince William” with my blond hair (certainly not but maybe they just see me as a fetish too??) that I might be a bit suspicious sometimes in the beginning when I get in touch with an Asian.

  183. First of all I would like to say I am a proud GBM, who does not look at any man as a trophy, nor do I want to be ever viewed as a trophy, Second of all I would like to say I adore my race, but do not limit myself to just dating within my race or dating a White man. Sounds to me like you view white men as trophies; human beings because of their nationality to give you status. Don’t be so closed minded on your view, we all get rejection, as a matter of fact coming from a black man that thinks Asian men are some of the most beautiful men on the planet, sounds like you singling out white men, you just rejected all other races that might take a interest in you, did you ever stop to think that because of your general view on white men and your race that you might turn away Mr. right because of your view. Not saying that you don’t have a right to feel the way you do, all I’m saying is I think you need to look deeper at your views, so you don’t come off sounding like a hypocrite. Because right now it sounds like you are saying white men are supreme and you would only date white men or a member of your race. Take care and I hope you find what you are looking for. Take care, and feel free to drop me an email I enjoy making new friends of all races, in this crazy gay world of ours we can always make friends 🙂 well wishes. Craig

  184. I agree with everything you wrote, I experience the same thing only I’m a black guy.It’s like as soon as I get in the hot tub all the white guys get out. I don’t mind, because I get the tub to myself.It’s their lost because they could have gotten a fantastic blowjob out of it if they stay in.

  185. I found your web page by doing a search on Google.com for “gay bathhouse New York.” I’ve never been to one and it’s not on my list of high priorities, however I don’t rule it out in the future. But, obviously, I was curious enough to look into it on the web, prior to my trip to New York.

    I almost never comment on websites. However, your site is very special, and I wanted to thank you for your time and honesty. I can just imagine all of the emotions and fears that built up inside of you that led you finally open the door to the bathhouse at 21. I ended up spending a couple of hours reading all of your stories. It sounds like you have learned many of life’s lessons in the bathhouse. In any case, I hope you will break past some of your own issues and find a good guy to share your life with (not to say without the bathhouse on the side, if that is what you want).

    Regarding the GAM issue, I’m a 30-year-old w/m. My b/f of over 3 years is a 21 GAM. You are right about most white boys not being interested in Asians. I wasn’t either. I met my b/f on an online personal service. He wrote me a sweet email, proudly proclaiming that he has nice abs. That was enough to peak my interest enough to get me to go out with him. He was persistent with me enough to get me to explore his mind, heart, and soul (after I was hooked on his body). We’ve had a great relationship ever since, and he is a really sweet guy.

    I’m glad I broke past my own issues with GAM thing. He feels the same way you do about the issue. I sent him a link to your web page. If he weren’t so persistent at the early stage of our relationship, I would have moved on to another white boy.

    Take care and thanks again.

  186. About white males not liking gam. As of now I have not had sex with a man. I was in Asia for 14 years w/Chinese wife (left me cold). Have loved Asian women for a long time and now thinking of a relationship with an Asian man because of their soft skin and slim bodies. If I could find someone who would wear nylons and soft clothes when together, I would be hooked.

  187. Thanks for your stories. I enjoyed them however as a fellow Asian, I have a different experience than the ones you describe in your web site.

    The bath house I go to is very diverse; possibly a reflection of its geographic location in the San Francisco Bay Area. Here, Asians are widely accepted and I have had numerous sexual interludes that were very satisfying with White men who are young and Sexy. Yes, old Trolls do inhabit the hallways of the bath house, but I find that they are not the exclusive Asian admirerer. I am not a very aggresive person at the bath house, so these young white men come up to me for a session.

    Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy the company of all kinds of men of every color. I have dated white men as well as Asians, and Latins. I find all to be very sexy.

    I think you are suffering from a poor image of yourself and as a result, it reflects in your outward appearance and thus affects your initial meeting with bath house men.

    Please accept the fact that you are a very sexy and sensual man, desired by all young men.

  188. My name is Tom. By accident I found your web page and it was a pleasure to read all your stories.

    I just wanted to let you know, that I really love Asians!! I am a GWM, average body, nice looking. Maybe a little bit shy :-))

    I was once in a gay Asian bathhouse. I think that Asians are the most beautiful people. With nice bodies especially when they are nude 🙂

    Man, would be great to meet you:-)

    Too sad I am far away….

  189. Liked your stories very much … a big turn-on. My heart totally broke, though, when I got to the stories about “racsism,” “rice queens,” and “young gwm.” It pains me very much to think that otherwise willing and attractive guys get rejected like that. I bet if the GWMs were willing to think about it for a moment and let go of their preconceived notions, they would find plenty that’s attractive GAM is just that: attractive. I am a 23 year old GWM that is in a more than 2 year relationship with a 24 year old GAM who is, as far as I am concerned, the yummiest thing I have ever met. I had never been with an Asian guy before, but it hadn’t ever occured to me to rule it out. But I have also been with black guys, white guys, and latino guys. I just feel like an attractive guy is an attractive guy, and white guys who have a policy of not hooking up with nonwhite guys are narrow minded. I feel sorry for them that they are missing out on hooking up with all of those really really hot guys out there who aren’t white. If you’re interested in discussing these issues with me, write me back….


    (PS: based on my personal survey, Asian guys definitely have the nicest skin, and I think that a nice golden cock springing from a bed of curly black hair is about the most beautiful thing I have ever seen.)

  190. I’ve been reading what you wrote about rejection. I am Caucasian, and I have to say I agree with you. Most white guys are only interested in guys just like them. Fortunately, there are people who aren’t like that! On the other hand, you say that you are only interested in a certain type (Matt Damon, etc.). Can you blame them for doing the same?

  191. I was thinking, you must live in a bad area if you cant find a guy to love. but, I love Asians, I’m white and have been attracted to very few white people. I figured out I was gay at 30. until then I didn’t date white women (preferring blacks) I had proposed to 1 white and 5 non whites. then I found out I was gay and only go out with non whites well that’s a lie , I been out with 3. my friends are mostly white cause we have much in common, but I’m not attracted to them. with women it was body imperfections . they showed more on whites. but with men , I love Asian eyes, black hair. and I don’t like guys bigger than me.

    but at your age it is hard to find that someone special. I found in my 30s that Asians were either in a relationship, or at the baths and not looking for one, or HIV and not looking. Except for your contempt towards whites, you sound perfect to me

    in the past 10 years I’ve had gonnorea from sucking dick, urinary infection form being sucked, etc. thank god I’m -. but you cant hide from life. I love dick. so I suck it. I just hoe when I’m old and alone there is an old Asian out there for me that’s where people think I’m weird, I don’t want an Asian teenager or in his 20s. I like guys my age.

  192. Hi, first off I thank you for sharing your experiences… being a Chinese guy myself, I understand you perfectly…

    Here in MS, the bible belt region, being gay and Asian is just plain hard.. I found it impossible to look for a boyfriend… and so I usually have to settle with some casual sex.. with mostly older people.. I am now 23 years old. I have been rejected countless times because of my race. It really hurts a lot.. Young white guys just don’t want to have anything to do with a Chinese gay guy.. it really sucks…

    However, I think I can relate to how the white guys feel towards us. You see, most people here are in the closet and it would look awkward to have a couple of different race to walk together around here.. Being gay here is like a very bad thing… but having a gay partner of a different race is just going to be strange… the question the white dudes are facing is how are they going to cover up their identity. If they pair off with their own kind, it is easier to come up with a story… but with an Asian guy… his friends will start asking questions… and thus his cover blown… THAT is the theory I come up with..

    You see I was not from here originally… I was from Malaysia… and there, we had 3 major races… Though the Chinese population were not the majority, we were the rich community there and thus most Chinese folks thrives the big cities… Being so, most gay folk in the cities were Chinese… hence the Chinese were the majority among the gay community. It was as though we were the white boys here… we never want to have sex with the other ethnic groups… we prefer our own kind for reasons that we could easily cover up our identity… and of cause the culture diversity.

    Here however, I really feel like a minority.. and life really sucks to be at the bottom of the community… However, I still really do like white young guys… it’s just a pity they don’t like me.

  193. I won’t disagree with your theory that there are Caucasian men who take advantage of Asian men. There are a lot of shit heads out there. Nor will I disagree with the fact that there are white men who aren’t attracted to Asian men. But, dude, you aren’t attracted to Asian men either. We are all attracted to different physical types because of some sort of aesthetic psycho quirk.

    Let’s jump out of gay culture for a minute and look at this from a larger sociological perspective. Whoa did I really say that? I live in northern California where there is a large Asian population.

    In my circle, I have 4 really good straight male friends. 2 Asian; 2 white. The 2 Asian men are married to white women; the 2 white guys are married to Asian women. In this neck of the woods you see a lot of Asian/Caucasian pairing; straight and gay. Why? I don’t know.

    I’m a white guy but I’ve never been sexually attracted to white men. Why? I don’t know. My first boyfriend was Asian. I had a 15 year relationship with an Asian man. Since he passed away suddenly 3 years ago, I’ve been with Asian men exclusively. Why? I know the answer to this one. I find Asian men unbelievably beautiful. To me, there is nothing more exquisite than Asian eyes. I melt in an Asian gaze. And that beautiful velvety skin. Those cute bubble butts. Moreover, I find Asian men to be intelligent, caring, and funny. And perhaps because of the family and cultural repression you’ve written about, when Asian men are comfortable with you and let go, I find them to be incredibly playful, passionate, and loving. Even for just a night. What’s there not to like here?

    You’ve created something special and unique with this site both from the standpoint of gay bath house culture and — while probably not intentional — the sexual psychology between Asian and white men. I love your perspective even if I sometimes don’t agree with it. Your writing is honest, straight forward and very engaging. Trust me, there are many men out there that would cherish a relationship with you. From the standpoint of the gay scene and rejection, well, what is . . . is.

    But I think you’re selling us white dudes short. Are there older white guys who go after Asian men because it’s all they can get? Probably. Are there older white guys who go after Asian men because, in their eyes, Asian men are beautiful? I think this position has not been given enough credit in your writing or the view of many of your Asian readers. My perspective: white men seeking Asian men seeking white men for all the right and natural reasons isn’t as rare as you seem to think.

    So there. 🙂

    Your fan and all around righteous Asian lover,


  194. Hi ya. I have read a few of your stories and do intend to read them all. I just got to like the 6th one and then decided to go back and read Racism. What you say about gay Asians seems to ring perfectly true to me. I am only attracted to a very specific line of hairy masculine white men. I have experimented with a few other races (Hispanic, black, & Indian ). I have ultimately come to the conclusion that I am indeed only attracted to the hairy white guy type. Anyway, none of that really matters, I was just letting you know where I’m coming from. I am a fairly good looking (OK, I’m hot but modest) young, thin, masculine (not to be confused with muscular) Hispanic male. I do not think that you were wanting people to know which bathhouse it was that you frequented, but I am assuming it is Not the one in Austin, TX. Because I can tell you honey, that attractive gay Asians are big competition for me, heh. I have met many highly attractive gay guys who have moved to Austin just because they like Latino boys. These same guys also (as some of them have told me) like young blacks, Philippines, Asians…, anything “exotic”. I don’t know what your financial situation is like, or how far away you are. But I think you should swing by this way if you ever get a chance.. The bathhouse in Austin sux really really bad. it’s a nasty, dirty, small place. But it’s home, :P. I am quite enamored of the baths in San Antonio however. It’s not the best, but it’s much better than the one in Austin. I don’t want this to come off sounding like I pity you, I don’t think (from what I’ve read thus far), that you are pathetic or anything like that. It’s just that you might not feel quite as “rejected” here. Any way’s, feel free to shoot me an e-mail. I really like your stories.

  195. I’m quite disturbed by what you have written. I suppose many people think I’m a rice queen, but I deny that. Most of my experiences have been with Asians, but that’s because Asian men are so good looking, usually friendly, and great lovers.

    In my experience, a lot of GAMs have serious problems with their self-image. For example, there’s a really hot looking guy I’ve been seeing recently. Matter of fact I met him in the baths. He is so cute; I just love his eyes, which are really thin; his nose, which is flat and turned up; his face; his cheeks; his hair; his body. Geez, I love spending time with him. Yet whenever I tell him how really attractive I find him he says, no, he’s ugly, old and fat. My goodness, he couldn’t weigh more than 65KG, and he’s only 26, compared to my 84KG and 40. (Yeh, yeh, you’re going to put me down as another old guy chasing young Asian boys. Forget it; that’s not the way it is.) How could he say that he’s ugly when he’s so cute? I know why he says he’s old: It’s because his hair has started to recede. Big deal. Who cares? He’s not fat, but he’s not got a gym-toned body. He’s just a really great looking guy. So why does he beat up on himself? I’ve seen this before, many times. I think it’s an Asian thing. Mind you, I think I’m fat (which I am) and ugly (so many people say I’m not) so maybe self-image problems are generic. I’m rambling.

    Why am I disturbed? You say that almost all GWMs ignore you. You say that you just want to meet someone sincere. Is it possible that you give off ‘not interested’ vibes without meaning to? I find it very difficult to approach a guy. I’m a shy sort. If I see someone cute I just cannot bring myself to say hello. And I notice that a lot of GAMs look down when I glance at them. Is that a ‘go away’ look? Maybe, yet I sometimes discover that no, it’s shyness, too.

    I feel sorry that you are lonely, but I think you bring a lot of it on yourself. I agree that you shouldn’t do anything that you don’t want to, but sucking is considered a safer form of sex, and you won’t do that. Oh sure, let them suck you; just don’t expect it back. What message are you sending? And you won’t do anal at all. Some guys don’t, but it’s pretty rare to find someone who won’t suck, won’t fuck, won’t be fucked, just wants to cuddle and talk. I love cuddling and talking, and I love to kiss. (Do you kiss? Worried about saliva borne HIV?) Yet I also love to suck and be sucked, and I love to fuck and be fucked, and if a guy hardly wants to touch me, well that feels like a rejection. I think you give off the message that you are so superior; and that they are so dirty. I don’t mean to be rude, or hyper-critical, rather I mean to tell you how you sound to me, an unbiased reader. (Unbiased? Hell, I’m emotionally inclined to take your side because you’re probably drop dead gorgeous, and I really like Asians.)

    I get ignored by most guys in the baths; this is not a GWM/GAM thing. But I generally find something, too. And when I do I really want him to feel good. So yes, I suck him. And if he wants we’ll do anal, I’ll even fuck if he wants, even though I prefer being bottom. I touch, and lick, and kiss, and cuddle and talk. I’d say about a third of my good friends are people I had sex with in the baths.

  196. Saw this story in the Seattle Mochi Balls Queer & Asian newsletter, a few days after some friends had a debate about why many Asian guys only date white guys. Also, the “referred by” section has sites I’d never heard of. I don’t have time to get into my bathhouse stories, but I applaud you for maintaining this site. I’m sure once I get through all the stories, I will have learned a lot.

  197. I connected with your website through a link with OG magazine. Of course, by visiting and subscribing to OG Magazine, you would know that I have more than a passing interest in Asian guys. First, let me say that I read all your stories and applaud you for allowing us to share an important part of your life these past 10 years. Secondly, I noticed that much of your disappointment during those years, centres on the fact that you haven’t met that “one true love”. It is apparent from your writings that this “love” will come in the form of some GWM who’s in your age range and not some older (50 to 65 year old) man who seems more of a bother to you when you’re at the baths. You also appear to be bewildered by the frequent “rejections” and why some (less attractive) others “score” where you do not. My question to you , and all Gay Asian Males is: “Have you ever thought that maybe your “one true love”, or the person you will connect best with, will come in the form of a Latino, a Black or even another Asian?” I truly don’t understand this (almost) obsession with being accepted and loved by some GWM. Third, and finally, I’d like to thank you for sharing these experiences with me and others. They were really a nice insight to the goings-on within the walls of a bathhouse. And for those of us who have never visited one it may provide the urge to go. I will add that although the baths may/can provide the opportunities for more sex than one would normally get outside, I doubt very seriously if true love can be found there.

  198. I read with great interest your accounts in the bathhouse. I am new in town (Chinese from Singapore). I am very much like yourself, who do not like clubbing but visit bathhouses (in Singapore) when needed. I am suffering from withdrawal here in Pittsburgh. I know there is only 1 bathhouse here and it’s supposedly a private club. Another (main) reason is that, unlike you, I actually prefer Asian (in particular Chinese) instead of Caucasian. From your writeup about being rejected as a Chinese, I figured I have to accept the fact and continue with the safest sex (that is, solo) while I am in town!

  199. Well I have read your stories, very interesting. I am a black young male who adores Asian men, especially Filipinos and Vietnamese. I think Asian men are one of the most beautiful men in the world. However if you really like white YOUNG guys move to Toronto Canada. Asian men tend to have more younger white boyfriends than older ones here. Plus we are the worlds’ most multicultural City.

  200. I felt I had to write you something. I feel so close to you reading your stories. It’s funny, we seem to be exactly opposite and yet going through some very same experiences. You are an Asian in America, I am a white guy in Asia. And guess what? I feel a lot of rejection here too. I admit I am not such a wonderful guy, but like you, I have seen many guys not so good-looking get luckier than me… I have only started going to bathhouses, so I am talking of rejection in general. Anyway, great site, maybe we can be friends if you like.

  201. Hi, I surfed in your website. The story is great. I was very sad to read ‘racism’, because i was dealing with the same problem, which I only realized after reading your story. It makes me frustrated, but I have learned to accept the truth. Though life seems meaningless and unfair. I made up my mind to stay single. Maybe the one will come, but you just have to be patient.

  202. I may challenge your observations. I am a 28 year-old white male. Blond/Blue eyes, tall and thin, and I prefer all Asians. I have a Taiwanese boyfriend, who I haven’t met yet. I prefer all Asian friends as well. My best friend is Korean, even though he is heterosexual and doesn’t know about me. Feel free to email back, I have picture.

  203. There’s something in the way in which you (sort of) denigrate Asian men that makes me feel all horrible and nauseated — not least because I feel the same way, too. Well, okay, I live in Singapore, so I know quite a few Asian gay and lesbian (actually, only one lesbian) friends — and they’re all “normal” enough people. But I’m attracted to none of them. And I had crushes on quite a few straight classmates (Chinese, of course) but nothing ever came out of those infatuations. What makes me feel absolutely crushed after reading your site is the suggestion that Asian guys would never find a normal Caucasian boyfriend — one with no fetishes, or who’s not a wrinkled old pervert. And I know that’s probably true. And I think I’ve a “flat” face. Plus I’ve been studying for 2/3 of my life. Aaaargh.

  204. Hi, It’s nice to have someone write about bathhouse, especially a Chinese guy. I really appreciate reading your writings — very interesting and intriguing! I just started reading. I’ll continue to read them all overtime. Keep writing the stories. However, I’d have to differ from you on your writing of “Racism”. I am a Chinese too. I had a few visits to various bathhouses in different cities. The reason that I started going there is that I am an exhibitionist, and enjoy others to love me (touching, massaging, sucking, praising, etc.). But I love to return the favor to only a very tiny number of females and males (usually I could not find). I found that white women don’t like Asian boys that much because Asians are too “skinny”. However, I found that white males love Asians (because “nice smooth body”, “soft skin”, “hard muscle”, “cute”, “hard cock”, etc.). I found that I was able to get a lot of “service” from young to middle aged men in the bathhouses without me returning anything. In fact, like you are, I do not engage in anal sex, nor sucking cocks (not even with condemn). All I may do, if I found someone very attractive, is hugging/body massaging and hand stoking. I was also stopped several times by white guys on the street of San Francisco and bars. I am not the traditional definition of “gay”. But I found comfort by going to gay places.

  205. You are such an excellent writer. I read each essay and was struck by how well written they are and by how they made my heart sink with empathy. I am Hispanic and I have felt rejection and discrimination since I was a small child in school. I know the hurt personally, but I have learned that for that 95% that rejects you, there is that 5% chance of hope. Now in my early thirties, I am just starting to make sense of all this. I feel fortunate to have come across your writings. While I have never been to bathhouse, I recognize the shallow attitudes you describe. You have a voice that makes you “visible” and not “invisible” to people who care about what you think and write. I truly believe you should seriously consider using this material for a book. I wish you the best in life and commend you for giving your honesty and insight to anyone who visits you website. Kindest regards, Daniel

  206. After reading just a little bit of your writing I feel compelled to write and tell you that it is not true that all Caucasians dislike Asians. I am a Caucasian from Canada who loves Asian men. I admit I didn’t read a lot of your pages (perhaps I will again later) but please I have to tell you….don’t give up on love. I went through a similar experience of never finding anyone and always being rejected and finally, much to my surprise, I met and fell in love with a most gorgeous young Chinese man. We have been together for four years now. I love what you are doing–brutal honesty in writing brings healing. So many need in the gay community need healing. All the best to you.

  207. Interesting in US no near-your-age GWM interested in Asian?? Maybe the US is different from Europe, I dunno but I was approached by a near-my-age WM in Switzerland bath house. Of course I m near yr age and neither look cute or good look ( I guess I m ugly). Anyway, I m not interested in WM either. So I turned away. OK wishing u luck…I know gay life is tough, hope yr spirit never die.

  208. I just read your story “Racism” and I am sorry that I do not know you. I LOVE Asian men and cannot understand why others do not….

  209. It’s amazing that your personal insights are mirror reflections of what I believe a “universal” phenomenon, particularly among Asians living in North America. I myself was brought up in the gay-bath culture and have certainly experienced many similar things that you have mentioned in your stories. I can only say, we truly live in a gay global village, whether you are in San Francisco, Miami, Toronto, or Montreal…..Good work!

  210. Hi, nameless person. I feel for you. Being depressed, having problems with not being out to your family, all these things really suck. But I think you may be going to the wrong place. You want a hot tub, a nice relaxing place and watch the news naked with a nice fire going, come to my house in the country. I don’t want to sound nasty, but sometimes you get what you deserve in a bathhouse. These people aren’t good enough for real live relationships, and from your stories you know that. Isn’t an afternoon or evening spent hugging, kissing, feeling, talking to another person the goal? Isn’t a relationship based on more than just sex? You think you are rejected for being Chinese. I just cant believe this. People who reject you are probably not “rejecting” you, they are probably are assholes who don’t know what you have to offer. I assume you are offering friendship, sexy fun, and are a nice guy. I also think you are too hard on the college guy, although I don’t have enough information. I had to teach my Chinese boyfriend everything, he had just come here and thought being gay was just sex in a bathroom with a stranger.I was so sad he was missing out on the reason he came here = = to be free and gay . I try every day to remind him that it is different here, we think differently due to different cultures.He appreciates what I did for him. But it is really hard to go a different way if you are Chinese. You need to accept yourself, and maybe look for love instead of sex. I’m 44 now, love and friendship is much more important than sex. I still love as much sex as I can get, but it is not worth being rejected, degraded, etc. to go to the bathhouse for sex. Think about it. It may not be the white guys fault. People who can see into your heart and soul may see that you are not happy. It is not because you are Chinese. I wish you the best, I hope you find what you want.

  211. I’m sorry to hear what you say about yourself and Asians in “Racism”. Don’t tell me it’s totally skin deep! In your experience, is this a N American phenomenon, or maybe restricted to the zone your Bathhouse is in? The whole thing sounds absurd. I’m Norwegian (so white, blond etc), 38 and looking younger (and have the same problem with the grey crowd as you) but have never been “turned off” by Asians. What turns me on is the character of the person – there are too many “good looking” guys out there to get hung on just the outside – if you want fun, even just an evening’s worth, you need someone with character, man, and that’s totally unconnected to ethnic origin. One of my friends is from Indonesia, and he’s my friend because he is interesting and has talent.

  212. Your bathhouse stories are interesting. I am a 32 y/o Chinese male myself. I can certainly share some of your experiences. A lot of white guys are not into Asian men. Although I really have not had older guys hit on me. When I first came out, I went to many different bathhouses, but I found them to be all somewhat impersonal. And has subsequently cut down on my visits. I would be really interested in finding out your bathhouse, since you find it so friendly.

  213. I think that all of your stories are great. It really gives a visual image of your experiences at the bath house. And popular to contrary belief, I think that Chinese guys are hot!!!!

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